To think taxing private schools...

[maddening]

I have no skin in the game, my dc is at a secondary state school. I have no strong views on private schools - although I think state should offer the same level for all dc.

However, looking at the maths I am not convinced the cost and benefits of this proposal works out - apparently vat will bring in 1.3 billion - however if the 554,000 children in private schools had to be schooled in state schools that would cost 4 billion - aibu to think this is not the win that many are led to believe? It is more divisive imo and driven by ideology.

If the private school parents are saving the state 4 billion a year then I don't have an issue with the vat personally.

I think that there could be more requirements placed on private schools in order to retain the vat free status, such as sharing facilities with local state schools and more subsidised places perhaps, or means tested vat relief for parents?

I’m not the one who only cares about her own DC. You refuse to
listen to other people who have struggled to get SEN support and have therefore funded it themselves because your DC has the support they need. So stop with the catty comments.

I’m not talking about private education thorough an ehcp it’s parents who remove their children from the state sector before they get an ehcp knowing the ehcp will take years

A good alternative to all this National Service/public school VAT talk would be to take the £6 billion Rishi thinks he can (now get) from clamping down on tax avoidance and investing it into state education. 18 years olds would leave school with a better education so no need for national service. Parents would be less keep to find private alternatives to state education if they knew it was better.

The wealthy.

Children on PP are far more likely to have SEN,often have no sharp elbowed parents or access to private education I worry more about them.

It doesn’t have to be the most extreme situations in order to be able to prove the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet DC’s needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. But you are right, LAs aren’t lining up to pay, they often have to be forced to act lawfully. You obviously don’t have much knowledge about EHCPs, which is fine, many don’t, but you shouldn’t be perpetuating myths and inaccurate information.

Don’t lecture me about struggles to get SEN support thanks. I’ve had to do it without private education as a cushion- for years.

“sharp elbowed parents”

Ah, now you are showing you true colours. You have jumped on that bandwagon. Enforcing their DC’s legal rights doesn’t make parents ‘sharp elbowed’.

Exactly.
Thank you for this post.
Private schooling is a luxury and VAT is supposed to be levied on luxuries.

Neither should you. EHCps are very hard to get ( see below) and getting one that funds a private education due to no state school in the area meeting need even harder.

Do share a link showing the vast numbers of parents with kids in fully funded private( non special school) education funded via an EHCP.

Well then you should be more sympathetic to parents and children who have been totally let down by their state schools and have therefore looked and paid for alternative options when they can’t really afford it and for whom a 20% increase would push them over the edge of affordability. But no, you put your fingers in your ears and just keep saying that these people are rich.

Because they are alongside perpetuating inequality with privilege.

I’m not posting inaccurate information. I do this day, day out having supported thousands of parents with EHCP matters.

Can you quote where I said “vast numbers of parents with kids in fully funded private( non special school) education funded via an EHCP”? You can’t because that is not what I said. I said it isn’t just in the most extreme cases where parents can prove the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet DC’s needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. That is true, but, as I said, it often takes an appeal because LAs often act unlawful..

But to give you the statistics there are 6,417 pupils with EHCPs naming mainstream independents. To put that into context that is more than are in mainstream free schools. You can see the statistics on the government dashboard. Google.

EHCPs aren’t very hard to get for a child who meets the legal threshold. But, again, parents often have to appeal because LAs often act unlawfully. Which is why the SENDIST success rate is so high.

No, they are just doing their best for their DC and as a parent whose child has a ECHP you should understand that more than most. They are also taking pressure off a very overloaded state system. Pushing them back into it will not help anyone and it certainly won’t reduce the “Eton” privilege that seems to fill you with such hate. It will just make the most elite private schools more elite and close down those that are supporting children who were failed by the state system.

So smaller class sizes are the answer to everything, really?

I’d lay a pound to a penny I have done more for my children’s school than you have but as I’ve sent a child private I don’t have skin in the game?

And the percentage of those that aren’t special schools is?

Really no excuse for parents waiting an EHCP to cite the need for private education then if they’re so easy to get.

Of course. A policy that works against this group is just spite for votes.

I understand what you mean and it’s madness to force the shift, which for some who are up against it, it will

A number of private schools already share facilities with local state schools at a cost - yes, buts cheaper for the state schools than building their own capability. Does that service now become VATable, and in some cases does it go away if schools go under, in which case the state will eitehr have to provide the service or not.

All around this is another poorly thought through Labour policy.

The Independent sector contributes £16.5bn to the UK economy. Much of that will disappear if overseas parents are forced to educate kids in International schools closer to home.

i dont know the figures, I know a few locally that have non specialist private school funded by ehcp but I know more in specialist independent which costs the la £80k to £100k a year that have come from mainstream where initial ehcp assessment requests were turned down as la said mainstream could meet needs within their existing funds.

my point was more about the parents who don’t fight for ehcp, they “give up” at or before the first hurdle as they know it will be a long fight and for whatever reason they don’t want to do, some of these locally pay and send their children to a small independent locally which is less than £10k a year. It’s ofsted and academic achievements are fairly poor but it fills a gap that state won’t provide

Except the definition of SEN varies hugely. Some wouldn’t require interventions in the state and at the other end those on EHCPs ( apparantly huge numbers ) will be protected. Apparantly it’s all grammar stealers anyway who will be leaving in their droves…..

Would be good if people could make their minds up.

No idea. The data is all there is you want to work it out.

You need to read my post again. I didn’t say they were easy to get.

I’d lay a pound to a penny I have done more for my children’s school than you have

Um nice try. I can see your conflicting values are causing a reaction.

Nothing to do with me.

The policy is very poor and is GE fodder not sense. It is poor for funding and poor for education. And if you were so concerned about SEN in state you wouldn’t champion a policy that will cause those who cannot manage the uplift to move.

There are some posters on this thread, that’s the outcome.

Except the definition of SEN varies hugely.

No, it doesn’t. The definition of SEN is set out in s.20 of the CAFA 2014.

SENs and need vary hugely, is that better?

I think that there will be more than one type of leaver. We’ve been debating SEN here so that’s what I’ve focused on. However, I do know that twice as many pupils as usual are leaving my DC’s private school this year for grammar. It’s an all through school and most people stay for secondary. Seems to be a big shift this year. Anecdotal evidence I know but the grammar school heads have already expressed their concern about this policy.

But unfortunately most local authorities don’t pay much heed to the children and families act and pretty much ignore it when it suits which is why some people feel they have no option but to opt out of state if they do not want a long drawn out fight