To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

Lots. It is fairly common at dcs school. More than half the class are only children. The largest family I know there has 4 children and it is very rare to have more than two.

It is indeed a populist policy, and a sign of the vacuousness of the modern Labour Party. Which is pretty sad when you come to think of it. I think the Tories will probably rejuvenate but Labour seems intellectually bankrupt now. All the big ideas gone, only spite and women with penises left. Shame.

Educate myself? I have taught in both sectors and in my opinion the state sector is at absolute breaking point. Aspiration is not high - just surviving the day for some teachers is as much as they can aspire to. And I am very well aware what schools deal with day in and day out.

This stupid policy will not help to improve state education and that is what is needed.

@Beansticks if there are no issues in state school why are people so incensed by private education?

Some people really don’t realise the state education is in and how this policy will not help.

Because of the inequalities it brings- privately educated kids are over represented in the top unis and jobs.

This policy is not going to make the playing field more equal.

as a Pp said, advocating for blind recruitment would be far more effective.

This.

Plenty of children are provided with “free” outstanding education or excluded from it depending on how much their parents can afford to move into or stay in a good school catchment.

Precisely, people will come up with different ways of accessing private school education - different models of payment / charging parents etc.

Exactly, I would have far more respect for Labour if they had a costed, considered plan to INVEST and IMPROVE all state schools.

would even support a small rise in tax to facilitate this but Labour don't care about the children or their education, they just want to be seen to be serving up petty political agendas to hurt the perceived enemy.

MN is incredibly left leaning. I don’t think this is accurate whatsoever.

Goodness. Many of my friends still have DC in London day schools and the norm there seems to be around three children. Meant for @snugglemonkey.

It’s staggering the limited thinking on here.

I think they may be talking about pupil aspirations and I would agree, they are incredibly high at our schools.

Labour are going to raze this country to the ground. That much is obvious.

Having done 7 years in state school with my kids and 5 years in private I can tell you first hand the state school did not want to know from any pushy middle class parents who you are assume have some sort of 'soft power' to influence the school.

They found us irritating, time-consuming and demanding. They told is politely to get lost.

They did nothing we suggested. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. They told us they are a state school and we expected too much. They told us to keep our middle-class demanding noses out of it (in a polite way). They thought we were a cut above our station coming and trying to tell them what to do.

We tried, and tried and tried. But in the end we all gave up.

Please don't assume there'll suddenly be an influx of changes as 'soft power' middle class parents sweep across the country and change British schools. You're very deluded if you imagine anything like that will happen.

The truth is British schools have been underfunded by billions since 2010. For the record I'm not a Tory voter which you assume all private-fee paying parents are. The Tories have slashed the budget year after year after year.

Let's look at some numbers. How much tax will private school tax raise?

https://www.mha.co.uk/insights/vat-private-schools-fees-a-labour-government

"The Institute for Fiscal Studies (“IFS”) issued a report in July 2023 entitled “Tax, private school fees and state school spending.” The IFS estimates that this change may raise an additional £1.7bn VAT.
To arrive at this estimate, The IFS has used data provided by the Independent Schools Council for the 2022-23 school year. The IFS has assumed that:

• Total fee income is £10.2bn
• That 20% of private school costs are subject to 20% VAT.

This leads to a gross yield of £2bn VAT reduced by £340m VAT on costs and a net yield of £1.7bn."

This new tax take will raise £1.7bn

However the real cost needed to raise schools back to 2010 levels is £12.2bn

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/24/schools-england-real-terms-cuts-since-2010-tories

PLEASE READ THE ARTICLES

While taxing private schools will raise 14% of what is needed - this isn't going to be nearly enough to change schools to the level you might wish for.

I'm not sure where the extra money is going to come from. Probably nowhere as the electorate, when asked, always prioritise the NHS and this sinking ship will swallow almost all the money going, plus all the debt we have to service from Covid missing billions - yes to repeat again - there's no money left.

Please don't expect earth-shattering change once Starmer is in. I send my kids to private school. I will be voting Labour.

Not everyone you see is what you think they are. Please don't keep that chip on your shoulder. We're not all as bad as you imagine and we keep trying no matter what. Just like all good parents do for their kids.

Again, you’ve clearly never been near a private school. Everyone I know has 2 sets of hard working parents with 0 entitlement who just want to their children to work hard , get a job and be happy.

I cannot stand people just trying to mess with others because they can’t have what the others have. It will be so depressing if the country actually starts going in a direction which makes it less compelling to bother working hard and aspiring for more.

Oh so many good points here! I’m with you OP. Hopefully this threat whatever it is will open some eyes of the over privileged

Pupil numbers are going down in a lot of areas, especially in the South.

In what way exactly?

This is not the picture for very any state schools in the country and pretending that all is rosy is not going to help the staff and kids who need it the most.

Of all the people I know who are funding PS themselves through income ie no GP assistance, no inheritance etc the majority are single child families.

A decent professional career can support one child if that’s your priority. Putting 2+ through for 14 years is an altogether different ball game.

This. MN is FULL of people who don’t work for whatever reason. Literally patting each other on the back all day. Left leaning because naturally - it’s someone else’s money. The entitlement is off the charts. We do have a majority of state dependence though.

I am sure some people do pick schools on that basis. I was saying that most don't (not in the state sector anyway!) I don't think you understood my point.

You seem to automatically assume that the best state schools serve only rich people. This is not the case. You will find a mix of backgrounds in any state school, due to the fact that they take from a local area and not from a group who can afford huge fees

Also school applications are handled by the council with no input from the school. It's a transparent process according to set criteria. You can't get in by making a donation.

I agree with you entirely that behaviour is hugely important. Private schools simply get rid of difficult pupils which state schools cant. I think most parents do support their children's homework and reading though, whatever their financial background.

Oxford are actively discriminating against private school kids, so the clever private school kids will walk into those state school places going forward.