Page 36 | To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

Thegreatergoodgerald · 2024-05-23T10:23:30+00:00

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know. Not whether or not VAT is added to a business. YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

Tospyornottospy · 23/05/2024 20:56

Notonthestairs · 23/05/2024 20:55

Rather depends on whether you trust the IFS report or the rather more invested ASI doesn't it.

Anecdotal evidence based on gossipy assessments of your children's friends parents finances are neither here nor there.

“Gossipy assessments” = do you mean parents directly saying? This has been discussed amongst almost every parent at length. It’s a big deal to many of the pretty modestly paid professionals.

as I said, I don’t think it’s easy to collate the data on this.

Another76543 · 23/05/2024 20:57

wombat15 · 23/05/2024 18:41

That wouldn't give them an advantage over state school children. Most of the state school children who get in have had some tutoring too.

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They get nearly 100% pass rate and it’s a non selective school, so it does appear to give an advantage.

SofaThrow · 23/05/2024 20:57

Public schools will thrive and become even more elitist. Smaller independent schools may well have to close and the impact on the state system will not be a positive one. This is the politics of envy of course and it will do much harm to state education.

Heatherbell1978 · 23/05/2024 20:57

Lilmaubetden · 23/05/2024 20:23

This thread and likely this labour government, cements in my mind what a race to the bottom the next four years is going to be.

It’s really no wonder that children in state schools are as poorly behaved as they are, if this is the mentality of the adults raising them. Entitled to think that everyone deserves to be at the same starting point, even if you haven’t worked for it.

People called ‘privileged’ as if to suggest that they were somehow gifted their good fortune in life and didn’t have to get to where they are based on their own merit.

What happened to aspirational goals? Working hard beyond just a physical daily grind…putting study and training before socialising, fake friendships and being the coolest in the class? Aiming to pull yourself out of deprivation and onto the next rung of the ladder.

It’s no wonder children are as entitled as they are. Give me. I want. You can’t make me.

And these ‘privileged’ aren’t even the ones people are really mad at. They aren’t the ones born into wealth. Those really wealthy, well they can never be touched. So in the meantime, we’ll just bring everyone down.

It’ll get to the point where people will be quite within their rights to say, what’s the point in bothering.

This. I'm state educated and have worked my arse off over the years, an undergrad, a postgrad, numerous professional qualifications...because guess what, I value education. Passionately. It's what has got me where I am. It's why I'm sending my DS to private school this year because he's in a class full of disruptive kids whose parents clearly don't value education. I know this because I speak to these parents. And their attitude is shocking. But yes, let's all bring ourselves down to this level shall we rather than strive to give our children the best.

PrincessTeaSet · 23/05/2024 20:58

Dibblydoodahdah · 23/05/2024 20:54

Actually they earn almost £24k each based on a 40 hour week at the current rate of £11.44 per hour.

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It depends on what you count as FT. But using 40 hours, they will take home 40k out of that. It won't leave much for school fees realistically

Lenoftheglen · 23/05/2024 20:58

Amazing post - absolutely spot on. Race to the bottom, jealousy, entitlement etc. it’s a depressing read!

Yawn @Tospyornottospy

Not everyone who agrees with this particular policy is remotely jealous or entitled or whatever nonsense you have found yourself applauding here.

I suggest you think a bit. Just a little bit. Would help you a lot.

Tospyornottospy · 23/05/2024 20:59

PrincessTeaSet · 23/05/2024 20:56

State schools don't divide into rich and poor. This simply won't happen. There are council estates everywhere. And new estates have affordable housing. School catchments are unlikely to not cover some of these unless in small affluent villages.

Also you must be a right snob to think that parents choose a school purely on the basis of how rich other pupils are, or that the best schools only have rich peoples kids in.

There are plenty of good and outstanding schools in rough areas with rough intakes and mixed areas too.

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You completely contradict yourself.

you think there is an old boy’s network, but you don’t think people pick schools based on this?! Come off it.

private school parents will move to areas with the best rated schools and pay extra/bribe/contribute to get their children into them, if the move doesn’t help.

as for the personal attack calling me a snob (lol) - you are the one suggesting people care about money/who knows who.

I care about my children being in a class where children behave themselves and therefore aren’t at risk of violence and are able to learn with other children whose parents have prioritised their learning/bother to do the reading and homework each night. Which happens in private schools or excellent state schools. Not all state schools, that’s for sure.

Beansticks · 23/05/2024 21:00

Tospyornottospy · 23/05/2024 20:51

I can afford the increase in fees, so it’s fine for me.

I feel extremely sorry for all the state school Turkeys on here voting for Christmas who think this unbelievably stupid idea isn’t going to impact their children’s state schools.

I suspect this will never actually come to fruition though, because SOMEONE in the Labour Party will surely crunch the numbers at some point and realise how fucking stupid it is.

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If they don’t they’ll have to do something big to counteract the inequalities private education brings in unis and top jobs. The electorate will expect it.

Tospyornottospy · 23/05/2024 21:00

Lenoftheglen · 23/05/2024 20:58

Amazing post - absolutely spot on. Race to the bottom, jealousy, entitlement etc. it’s a depressing read!

Yawn @Tospyornottospy

Not everyone who agrees with this particular policy is remotely jealous or entitled or whatever nonsense you have found yourself applauding here.

I suggest you think a bit. Just a little bit. Would help you a lot.

Why don’t you bother to find the post I’m commenting on. Commenting on a comment without the original content is pretty funny 😀

Tospyornottospy · 23/05/2024 21:01

Beansticks · 23/05/2024 21:00

If they don’t they’ll have to do something big to counteract the inequalities private education brings in unis and top jobs. The electorate will expect it.

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This is something I would support though. People should be judged on merit and ability. Obviously that’s fair and reasonable and correct, and doesn’t drag other people down, but actually levels the playing field.

Dibblydoodahdah · 23/05/2024 21:02

Beansticks · 23/05/2024 21:00

If they don’t they’ll have to do something big to counteract the inequalities private education brings in unis and top jobs. The electorate will expect it.

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Well they could make blind recruitment a legal requirement. That would be far more effective than this policy.

Ginfluencr · 23/05/2024 21:02

Yanbu. They need to pay the VAT. Most will find it, very few will end up in state schools, they'll cope.

If they do go to state schools hopefully they'll chip in some decent cash to the PTA etc as they'll be saving so much in fees. It's win win.

SofaThrow · 23/05/2024 21:03

Beansticks · 23/05/2024 21:00

If they don’t they’ll have to do something big to counteract the inequalities private education brings in unis and top jobs. The electorate will expect it.

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Yes - SORT STATE EDUCATION OUT! Aspire to be as good as the very best schools whether they be independent or state and stop dragging everyone down.

Polishedshoesalways · 23/05/2024 21:03

My kids are out of the school system virtually so we are not invested directly, I genuinely can not understand why anyone would vote to ruin their child’s education?

It’s just nonsensical to imagine your family will be unaffected by this policy if you have children in already struggling underfunded state schools.

Private schools will still exist and become even more elite, this ridiculous policy is going to absolutely NOTHING to eradicate inequality and will almost certainly make the problem far worse. Private schools will no longer feel morally obliged to offer anything to anyone in the future - and the divide will deepen.

It would be far more sensible to encourage more free places and share facilities. I despair with this kind of lame, short term thinking and policy making. Scraps fed to the far left to muzzle them.

Razorwire · 23/05/2024 21:03

Rural town where I lived previously, private school parents were the GPS, Dentists, local professionals, landed farmers. A fair few, one partner worked in London & train to country on weekends. Housing and costs of living cheaper in rural area so they could afford “better” education at one of the 4 private schools in town.

The point being … people/parents who prioritize education, figure out ways to make education affordable - even if it means dad couch-surfs 4 nights a week in London so child can attend private. They plan ahead, looking at salary, rent, mortgage.

Families priorities and plan, so they can afford the things they value. Private education obv. Not within everyone’s reach. The tax will impact the 2.7% of day pupils (so the research says), but not boarders. So for every 100 private school day pupils, 3 will no longer afford it. Boarders not impacted.

crumblingschools · 23/05/2024 21:03

This policy will not help state education.

PrincessTeaSet · 23/05/2024 21:04

Xenia · 23/05/2024 20:53

Socialism always wants to pull everyone down to the lowest possible denominator. Sadly the current Tory party has led to our current very very high tax Government with a huge state and massive taxes which particularly hits hard working young professional parents who have been hit by a raft of changes from 9% student loan "tax", to no child benefit, no single person's tax allowance and very high marginal rates of tax as a result, huge extra costs if they employ full time childcare due to paying their own tax and NI, the childcarer's tax and NI and the employer NI and the employee's pension and employer pension contribution (or very high full time nursery costs) and none of the 30 free hours thing that goes to the lower paid. Add 20% x 20k x 2 children on top - extra £8k a year out of after tax income - say £15k income needed and that is getting very unfair on these higher paid professionals.

If anyone is unsure how to vote in July, vote Conservative or whatever vote in your area will keep Labour out.

You list a load of things that are disadvantageous to higher paid people, almost all of which came in under the Tories (and any that didn't weren't changed by the Tories during their long term in office)...and yet you are somehow blaming Labour?

That is illogical to say the least

Lenoftheglen · 23/05/2024 21:04

Tospyornottospy · 23/05/2024 20:51

I can afford the increase in fees, so it’s fine for me.

I feel extremely sorry for all the state school Turkeys on here voting for Christmas who think this unbelievably stupid idea isn’t going to impact their children’s state schools.

I suspect this will never actually come to fruition though, because SOMEONE in the Labour Party will surely crunch the numbers at some point and realise how fucking stupid it is.

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It is fine for me too.

But I wouldn't call those who wish for a fairer educational playing field turkeys or stupid.

crumblingschools · 23/05/2024 21:05

@Lenoftheglen but this policy isn’t going to do that

Dibblydoodahdah · 23/05/2024 21:05

Ginfluencr · 23/05/2024 21:02

Yanbu. They need to pay the VAT. Most will find it, very few will end up in state schools, they'll cope.

If they do go to state schools hopefully they'll chip in some decent cash to the PTA etc as they'll be saving so much in fees. It's win win.

For those who were taken out of the state system previously because they couldn’t cope, please explain how they will suddenly be able to cope now?

wombat15 · 23/05/2024 21:05

Another76543 · 23/05/2024 20:57

They get nearly 100% pass rate and it’s a non selective school, so it does appear to give an advantage.

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Perhaps it depends on the grammar exam and also what is meant by "pass rate". Where I live they give the places to the students with the highest marks and many who got the official"pass mark" don't get in. Those that do have not usually had intensive tutoring. It is mainly down to iq.

Marjoriefrobisher · 23/05/2024 21:05

silverneedle · 23/05/2024 16:23

Interesting article by Tim Leunig, an economist and former special adviser to Downing Street, the Treasury and Department for Education in 2023. He tweeted despite the threat of VAT, private school applications are the second highest in history. He has no doubt that the sector will be fine, and that Labour will raise a decent sum of money.

From article:

“There are times in our lives when bad stuff happens. State schools did not want the Theresa May cuts in real-terms funding. Indeed, they didn’t want austerity at all. But you know what? That is democracy and we have to live with the decisions our politicians make.

State schools, starting from much lower levels of funding, managed to make ends meet. Good, valuable things were scrapped. Quite remarkably (at least until Covid) our schools and our children coped. Outcomes remained strong, measured by GCSE results, PISA and comparison with other parts of the UK. Our state schools can be proud of what they have achieved in tough times.

It is time for private schools to show the same resilience. Fees have risen a lot in recent years. If parents won’t pay 20 per cent more, private schools need to make austerity work. No more fancy new buildings. Hire out that swimming pool in the evenings. Maybe – whisper it quietly – close the pool altogether.

And if they struggle to do that, perhaps they should approach their local state schools to ask how to cut costs without cutting standards. I am sure for the right fee our state school leaders, many of whom really are outstanding, would be willing to impart their wisdom.

No doubt they’d find a lot of savings to make. In fact, I’d bet a bottle of luxury sparkling wine on it.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/avoiding-vat-is-a-risky-strategy-for-private-schools-better-advice-is-available/

Edited

What a silly article. Too many people letting the excitement go to their heads.

PrincessTeaSet · 23/05/2024 21:05

Polishedshoesalways · 23/05/2024 21:03

My kids are out of the school system virtually so we are not invested directly, I genuinely can not understand why anyone would vote to ruin their child’s education?

It’s just nonsensical to imagine your family will be unaffected by this policy if you have children in already struggling underfunded state schools.

Private schools will still exist and become even more elite, this ridiculous policy is going to absolutely NOTHING to eradicate inequality and will almost certainly make the problem far worse. Private schools will no longer feel morally obliged to offer anything to anyone in the future - and the divide will deepen.

It would be far more sensible to encourage more free places and share facilities. I despair with this kind of lame, short term thinking and policy making. Scraps fed to the far left to muzzle them.

Shared facilities and a handful of free places are scraps fed to the poor

Marjoriefrobisher · 23/05/2024 21:06

Dibblydoodahdah · 23/05/2024 21:05

For those who were taken out of the state system previously because they couldn’t cope, please explain how they will suddenly be able to cope now?

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She doesn’t care

Polishedshoesalways · 23/05/2024 21:06

PrincessTeaSet · 23/05/2024 21:05

Shared facilities and a handful of free places are scraps fed to the poor

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Well not for much longer I suspect.