Is mumsnet right wing?

[BrilloPadHairball]

There are so many benefits bashing threads on here I’m really starting to wonder. Do the majority of people posting on mumsnet lean heavily to the right?

Being against men having access to women's spaces, advocating for sex-based rights and opposing the medicalisation of gender distress in children isn't 'right wing'. Trans Rights Activists have had a lot of success at keeping people on the left quiet by branding this view point 'right wing' and 'bigoted'. It isn't and when you understand how manipulated well-meaning people have been you will probably be utterly horrified. I'd describe myself as centre left. I completely agree that I share a gender critical view point with some Conservative voters. It is very much a cross party issue.

Lol! Well I'm certainly not 😂

It’s not about being ‘trans intolerant’, it’s about recognising that sex based rights should be seen as a separate (and in some cases, overriding) to gender ones. I have been left wing in my views since I’ve known what politics actually means in terms of real life impact, from a left wing family going back generations (Labour and Plaid). But this current train of thought being ‘left wing means putting aside anything that affects you to be kind to others’ simply doesn’t wash, not when it has real world consequences on a mass scale. Politics is selfish, even if you’re left wing - you are meant to vote for what suits you as an individual. And women in particular have it so drilled into them that their place in society is so much lesser that the only way we can be seen as truly liberal is to put absolutely every single social/economic groups wants in front of our own.

As is always proved on MN, the moment you start saying ‘my needs comes first, I will not share my space with others who don’t belong there’, your whole political agenda is as right as Trump standing starboard side. It’s simply not true.

That's quite a reach. Most of my gender critical friends are left / liberal politically. Personally I find Starmer a bit too right wing and I am gender critical too.

to be fair all discussion of trans issues and how it impacts women's lives was banished not only to the feminism board, but a special space was created there where there, and only there, was it allowed to be discussed.

Again: just because feminists and right-wingers agree on ONE SINGLE THING doesn't make feminists right-wing any more than it makes people like Matt Walsh feminists.

There is post after post after post on MN saying: "i have voted labour all my life, for this one thing that i really really care about Labour have an opposite position and i don't feel i can vote for them because of it. I can't vote Tory or green etc"

That doesn't indicate a right-wing board to me. Far from it. I do agree with pp that often when someone comes on a thread and says they vote Tory, they just get jumped on. I prefer more discussion about why that might be and what attracts them to the tories - it might give more people food for thought (on either side of a right/left divide)

"the moment you start saying ‘my needs comes first, I will not share my space with others who don’t belong there’, your whole political agenda is as right as Trump standing starboard side" This is a very big and flimsy straw man, at least in as far as my comment goes. I never said anything remotely akin to suggesting this.

I actually never stated my views on gender ideology, and I do believe it's important and that it needs discussing. However, I've seen a great many comments on the MN Feminism boards saying they will be voting Tory despite being concerned with social justice and historically left wing, simply because of the tories aggressive stance on gender ideology. People are absolutely free to vote as they choose of course, but what I find depressing is how many feminists will ignore the raft of sexism the Tory party perpetuate simply for one single issue. Many things are important (benefits system, immigration, etc. etc.), not just gender ideology, and I find it depressing when people become single issue focused when they proclaim to be feminists, which is a movement that encompasses so much (in my opinion).

Do right and left actually mean anything anymore?

If you compare Liz Kendalls and Rishi Sunaks remarks on benefits and making work pay you would be hard put to find substantial differences between them.

I think it suits those in power to have the general population fighting likes cats in a bag because when we're arguing with each other we're paying less attention to what they are doing.

I don't think there is a party in this country which will take action to stop the transfer of wealth to those who already have more than enough.

Overall it's pretty centralist, like most people to be honest. Yes there's some right wing threads, but there's also plenty of universal basic income pro social housing tax the rich threads too. Most posts aren't even political

I never said those are your specific words, but they are the thoughts held by many gender ideologists. Looks what’s happened to JKR, a woman who’s never been seen as anything but liberal until she started fighting for sex based rights. Now to TRAs, she’s the poster for the far right apparently.

However, I've seen a great many comments on the MN Feminism boards saying they will be voting Tory despite being concerned with social justice and historically left wing, simply because of the tories aggressive stance on gender ideology.

As is their right to do if the politics suits them. You seem to have missed a great chunk of my posts that states your vote should reflect your views rather than putting aside what works for you for the general population.

and I find it depressing when people become single issue focused when they proclaim to be feminists, which is a movement that encompasses so much

Gender ideology has been the greatest threat to feminism and female sex recognition since the days of the Suffragettes. Without recognition of that, all other fights for women and girls rights are fully undermined. If you can’t say what a woman is, how can we fight for anything regarding women and girls to start with?

And they’re not ‘proclaiming’ to be feminists. There are plenty of hypocritical self proclaimed feminists around, but those speaking against gender ideology aren’t the ones.

It's not ignoring or endorsing Tory sexism it's simply an acknowledgement that women's rights cease to exist if the category women also includes men.

You cannot monitor the effects of government policy on women or plan services for women if the data gathered is separated by gender rather than sex.

Single issue voters understand that accurately identifying women as a sex class is a first principles thing from which all our other rights flow.

I think mn is like the bbc. Right wing think it’s a nest of lefties. Lefties think it’s a pit of fascism.

JKR has become absolutely abusive. In case it needs stating, of course she's free to post on her social media whatever she wants. In my opinion, though, she has gone way beyond talking about gender ideology and the issues around it, and crossed into abusive and cruel towards individual people (as opposed to talking about issues in general).

We're not going to agree here, I think. I already stated people can vote how they want. It gets tiresome repeating after every statement that people can think what they want, vote how they want, believe what they want. Of course they can. I still think it is troubling when feminists will ignore the bigotry of the tories overall simply to focus on gender ideology issues. Women suffer under tory rule. I worry that all tories have to do is say the right thing on trans issues to sway many feminists.

not right wing but it is very disabelist these days. Wasn't like that in the past.

Genuinely asking, can you provide examples of her being abusive?

She used to be pretty tactful in her position but lately I’ve seen her respond quite strongly in response to specific individuals who have targeted her online. So yeah I’d agree she’s much blunter now but I’ve not seen anything I would have considered abusive - just stuff that I’d class as not taking any shit from people trying to throw it.

I am not on Twitter often though, so could easily have missed something.

Telling the truth isn’t abusive. Dancing around the point, fudging the use of words in describing people is not a kindness. You cannot talk about this issue unless you highlight the individuals involved. If a male is highlighted as a ‘woman who’s done x, y and z’, why on earth shouldn’t that be pointed out as an untruth? Women who aren’t women being the first to take positions, break records, speak on women’s issues - what is a kind way of pulling them up as it not being their place?

Yes people can vote as they want, so why a whole thread on ‘but if they don’t vote left then I will judge them’? As for the bigotry of the Tories, apparently the bigotry within the Labour Party is ok to ignore.

How can mumsnet be 'right wing?'

Are you saying that the founders/owners are right wing?

Or are you claiming that the majority of the huge number of users with a wide ranging variety of views on a huge number of different things exhibit evidence of a bulk of right wing views.

Even as an individual I can't decide where my political allegiance lies - I'm economically socialist, but value children and women's rights above corporate interests and have various liberal and green views to boot.

I agree with this. The ableism on MN is jaw dropping at times.

I don't mind plain speaking one little bit. I don't believe that's what JKR is always doing, though, when she picks on individual people in front of her audience of millions. I think it's cruel. We differ here. I'm also not into the whole "be kind" thing. I agree that real kindness is being authentic, not "nice".

I don't think bigotry anywhere is ok to ignore! But unless we're going to get into a discussion on which party is more harmful, we can surely agree that the tories are the more damaging and regressive party by a country mile. FWIW I'm not wedded to voting Labour this time around for many reasons, but will never be voting right wing, regardless of what labour is doing. That's where my concern comes in, that people will apparently be so easily pulled into voting tory specifically for one issue, when they're a right wing, increasingly more extreme, party. I probably won't reply again because this is getting repetitive and I can't see us agreeing overall.

The left-wing Vs right-wing classification is popular as a way of talking about politics (and writing headlines and tweets!) but it's so reductive.

The 'left-right' descriptor was coined in 1789, during the French Revolution, and is no longer fit for purpose in 2024 Britain.

A YouGov poll found less than half of the British public know what a stereotypically left-wing policy and what is a right-wing policy is.

The reality is that most of us will support various policies from all sides. Eg, left-leaning when it comes to healthcare, right-leaning on education, left-leaning on foreign policy, right-leaning on the economy, etc etc. More of a pick-and-mix stall, rather than a dogmatic religion

By using 'left-right' we simply play into a populist trap that aims to prevent understanding of other people's viewpoints. I hope we can move past it and learn to talk about politics and society in an accurate, thoughtful way.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

... wait, you're serious?

The big thing to remember is that the majority of Mumsnet users are women.

Women have gotten the shit end of the stick from both tories and labour. They will criticise both. They will also criticise institutions such as the NHS (a left leaning organisation) because of rampant misogyny.

I don't think Mumsnet leans one particular way, but what many of us do have in common is getting pissed off at any institution or political party that ignores or tries to dismantle the rights of women.

But as holly valance pointed out...
Everyone starts off as lefties when they are young. Then you start working, earn some money, start paying taxes and realise what a crap idea it is.
That is a load of wank and it isn't even original on her part - stolen from Churchill who almost certainly stole it from someone else like most of his "wisdom".

No.

I see posts from all sides of the political spectrum tbh.

TBH I don’t even really think there’s much in the way of ‘benefit bashing threads’ - usually it seems to be driven by parents of young children barely making ends meet being frustrated how little better off they are working vs not.

JKR has absolutely abusive

Please explain, with diagram if necessrary, what is abusive about saying

"Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?"

Sadly we’re going to be talking about left and right wing until we have a system of government that allows governance that is less polarised and more reflective of the different views of the electorate. :(