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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my DM expects a ridiculous amount?

552 replies

Alwaysgothiccups · 13/05/2024 22:09

My DM has MS and can only walk a few steps.. she has an electric wheelchair.
My dad was her carer and they were living abroad but he died just over a year ago. She tried to live alone in her house there (after a stint living with me in my house which was completely unsuitable as is a terraced house) but failed and ended up in hospital for 5 weeks. She wasn't eating or washing etc..
I have 3 primary aged children, the youngest is 2mnths old. I am on maternity leave currently from my job which is permanent 12 hour night shifts in a hospital Friday,Saturdays and some Sundays. I do not drive. My DH is a nurse and also works long shifts but only days. He does drive. He is working ATM as he only got 2 weeks paternity.

My DM has returned to England and now lives 15 min drive (40 min walk) away from us.
She is basically saying she doesn't need carers.
Yet I have been going round every other weekday and weekends to cook, clean and make phone calls do admin for her etc.. She also needs support going outside anywhere.. can't open doors,can't get her wheelchair back up the curb if she falls off which she often does..
I have also had to give her 900 quid despite her having an income the same as my husbands (she's terrible with money) that 900 quid was all of my savings for a specific thing my child needs.
I'm just quite angry but she acts like this is all what anyone would do for a parent and also like it's not really that much but I'm exhausted and barely see my DH.
I'm trying to get her to accept a care act assessment but she won't and just says she doesn't need care abd doesn't want strangers interfering.
I can't just leave her as she would stop eating and washing again... she almost died when she went and tried to live alone.
It's putting a strain on my marriage now. My DH is a very kind man but he's sick and tired of being at her back and call.
I've always had a difficult relationship with her. I left home in my teens and they moved abroad in my early 20s.
But I do love her and what her to be in a safe situation.
AIBU to think she is actually expecting far too much from me and it isn't normal?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Marplesyrup · 14/05/2024 13:10

Merryoldgoat · 13/05/2024 22:13

Sorry OP but you are enabling her.

I know it’s hard but you can’t do this and shouldn’t.

This 100%

Purplebunnie · 14/05/2024 13:10

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:57

After my dad died I spent two months there clearing it out and doing work..
However my mum is a hoarder and since she went back there had amassed a load of stuff again..
I also spent a great deal of money getting over there snd staying..
I now have no savings left. I also do t have passports for 2 of my children and my DH has no more time off work other than a week which we are booked to go camping and I'm not sacrificing that.
So I've told her I'm not even considering going across there until winter

Sorry I didn't intend to make things harder for you I actually thought it might be a cheap holiday - I got that wrong.

Also please check French inheritance law as it differs from the UK and I think you may have more rights

TryingAgainAgainAgain · 14/05/2024 13:11

I don't know what she thinks will happen longer term?

She doesn't care what happens to you and your family, as long as she gets her wants met. You can drive yourself into the ground/a breakdown/financial ruin/whatever, she doesn't care, may even enjoy it.

Silvers11 · 14/05/2024 13:14

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:23

It's a long road.
I have posted about it before.. but I do feel I've made some progress. Such as she is not living in my home any more! I've managed to set firm boundaries so that she's not even set foot in my home since she left and nor will she after the things she did.
It's hard tho and I do occasionally need emotional support.. mumsnet is good for getting people to talk sense to you. It's not easy when you see how frail she is in real life.. she cries when I leave her flat in the evening.
I know its frustrating for people who've read my previous posts. But I do understand I have to cut back what I do for her.. I'm working towards getting in a position where I can do that.
I've already cut down to only seeing her every other day. I've clearly pointed out to her when I'm unavailable and not budged on it.
I need to scale it back more that's true and is something I am working on.
She fully expected my husband to go across to France and collect some of her things.. not even offering petrol money.. we said a clear no. She expected me to go over to France to facilitate some medical care there in August, and stay with her whilst she recovered.. I said no.

But obviously there are things I need to sort out so that I can withdraw in good conscience.. like getting her medical care properly transferred over to England.
Buts it's painful and it's hard.
When I started posting just after my dad's death I genuinely thought I'd be her full time carer and we'd both sell the houses and all live together and be together as a family...
I've come a long way from that.

Ah! I see. Yes, I can understand that. Didn't realise you had posted before about this. I hope you can get things sorted soon, because right at the moment you are in danger of being unable to cope with anything at all/having a break down.

I do sympathise as my late Mother behaved very similarly. She died 2 years ago and my physical/mental health is still not fully recovered. Don't think it ever will.

Take Care of yourself

Needmoresleep · 14/05/2024 13:37

Not read the whole thread, but my bottom line was that my family should not suffer as a result of my commitments to DM. (Allowing for the fact they were teenagers so useful for them to see that family looks after family.) If there were problems I would suggest that DH said "no" which she seemed to accept.

I took over management of DMs affairs and. by agreement with others, she effectively compensated me for my time (I had to give up work) and I ensured she got Attendance and other allowances and rented out her flat for income, whilst she moved to sheltered housing with a good level of 24 hour support. Luckily she had money.

She lived with dignity for a decade. I could not have done it if either I or my family were resentful of the demands.

Peacelily001 · 14/05/2024 13:39

OP, with kindness (as I know she’s manipulated you your whole life) but you need to let her fail.

Do as others have said, visit a max 1-2 hours per week on your terms, then stand back and let her see the consequences of her own decisions.

This woman will absolutely ruin your life if you let her. You have a husband and young children and she’s completely self absorbed. She sounds bloody awful and she’s done a complete number on you, so I appreciate how hard it must be for you when you’ve been raised to do her bidding.

I’ve worked in hospitals and within social care and have watched families deal with people like your mother who refuse care and help at home. We always advised, as long as the person had capacity, that that is their decision to make if they resolutely refused support.
Families at the end of their tether had to stand back.

Sometimes they’d be discharged without support in place as this was what they insisted on.
Then they’d come back in by ambulance having had a fall etc.
Next time they’d accept support.

Please, please prioritise yourself and your family.

godmum56 · 14/05/2024 13:44

Its possible that you have gone past the place where she can give you POA. Ever since I have been in practice in the NHS, there has been a "thing" called "the MS personality" In recent years it has started to be accepted as an actual issue and not simply anecdotal reporting. Its still not clear whether its a predictive symptom (people have it for all or most of their lives and its somehow a marker for the possibility of MS), a precursor (starts before the MS but is part of it) or a part of the MS progression or maybe all three, The symptoms are also varied...can be euphoria, poor decision making, irrational beliefs, a loss of empathy for others, a loss of self control and social filters, innappropriate emotional displays (laughing at the hurt and misfortune of others) demanding behaviour. Obviously its a difficult one to discuss with an MS sufferer and many of them deny the behaviour which may also be a part of the issue. My apologies if this is offensive to people who have MS. Not everybody gets these issues but it is beginning to be discussed in places like the MS Society. Its a hard thing for people to come to terms with but nothing can be done to make it more manageable for the person unless its recognised and discussed. What it may mean is that when the symptoms get to a certain point, as with other dideases which affect cognition, the person may lose all or a part of their capacity to make decisions, in which case they cannot give a POA.

KittensSchmittens · 14/05/2024 13:46

The similarities with my mother who now has dementia are startling. I have to think that this is what narcissism looks like when cognitive impairment sets in. She has always seen herself as the centre of the universe, but now she has lost the cognitive abilities to manipulate you subtly.

It's interesting how the narcissist types seem prone to cognitive decline.

YouSayChorizoIsayChorizo · 14/05/2024 13:47

OP, I wonder if by giving your mother all the care, consideration and attention she didn't give you as a child, you were somehow trying to reset/repair the past?

You sound like a very loving person. Your mother sounds like she has huge unmet needs, and perhaps thought she could fix that by diverting your loving energy away from the people who should be getting it. And that she could hit you with the guilt stick if you objected.

I'm so glad to read from your latest post that you aren't going down that road any more OP. Not letting the pattern of emotional neglect repeat itself in your own family. You've been amazing, you haven't just walked away but negotiated this horrible situation with great skill, grace and strength. Everyone will be so much happier for it - even your Mum, if she has it in her to face the truth.

aridiculousargument · 14/05/2024 13:48

CinnamonTart · 14/05/2024 12:56

... she burst in halfway thru the appointment and threatened to 'follow me to England and kill' me if I ever dared to 'take any of her money'

Can you see how wrong this is?

That’s absolutely grounds for no contact at all. Ever.

And please don’t let your greedy selfish mum result in your new baby having attachment issues because you’re spending to much time and effort on her.

That’s all there is to it, really.

everything else is a distraction.

Escapingafter50years · 14/05/2024 13:56

So much of your thread resonates with me. I was brought up by a (covert) narcissist "mother" who has made my life hell, especially in recent years as she has aged. I had to step back from her, felt huge guilt "abandoning" a woman in her late 80s. But she pushed me further than I could cope with. 2 1/2 years NC now and loads of therapy. I hope you might be in a position to get good therapy yourself, I think you need it to absolve yourself from your misplaced guilt. Also read about Fear, Obligation and Guilt, commonly known as FOG.

Obviously it's a terrible situation and you have to feel for someone who has MS. But they don't have the right to demand you set yourself on fire to keep them warm. With a newborn and 2 other children, you have every right, in fact you have a responsiblity, to look after your relationship with them. Your mother being as damaged as she is is not your fault, nor your responsibility. She never dealt with her issues.

I've a few comments on some of your posts, you may find some of them a bit brutal, however they are kindly meant -

"I'm just quite angry but she acts like this is all what anyone would do for a parent and also like it's not really that much but I'm exhausted and barely see my DH."
This is common with narcissistic parents. They are entitled and don't see you as a separate human beings with needs of your own.

"I've always had a difficult relationship with her. ... But I do love her and what her to be in a safe situation."
Not surprised about the difficult relationship, I had a sense of that before getting far into your 2nd paragraph. As to love, I think you're probably trauma bonded to her. Do you think you would love an elderly neighbour if they expected that from you?

"The guilt is horrendous because I know she won't look after herself. And I know she genuinely believes I should do it."
This is like some horrendous game of chicken which she's intent on "winning". She doesn't see the cost to you, or even to herself.

"She could afford a carer.. altho her rent is quite high. She just doesn't want one she says."
A question I learned, far too late in the day, is to ask "What about me?".
You actually matter, but I suspect, like me, you were brought up to feel that you didn't, that her needs mattered above everyone else. I would also point out that your father enabled this, which has caused a lot of damage to your emotional wellbeing.

"The thing is she doesn't have much interest at all in being a mum or a gran."
Exactly like mine. My kids are adults now, she never babysat or minded them, just criticised them and my parenting. My biggest regret is that I didn't walk away from her decades ago. But as a narcissist she felt hugely entitled even though she invested nothing in my children. The end of our relationship was because although she never gave them her time or interest, she felt that during covid they should have stepped up and looked after her. She told me if I was a proper mother she would have a better relationship with her grandchildren. I know it's not likely your mother will see your children into adulthood, but want to point out that if she has no interest now, that is not going to change. I wish someone had alerted me to this when my kids were little.

"I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't know I'd at least tried to do the right thing by her."
But you have. You have bent over backwards to meet her demands, potentially damaging the relationship with your husband to do this. No loving, caring mother would expect this of their child.

"I know the things she does are bad
.. bit I can't stop feeling so sorry for her and so sad. She has no one. And alot of that is to do with her yes.. but it's still deeply sad. I don't want her to die. I want her to be happy. But she is very hard to make happy.."
Thing is, people have to live with the consequences of their own behaviour. Sadly your father enabled so much (probably damaged from his own childhood). Her having no one is on her, and it's not your responsibility. I know it's really hard, but truly it's not your responsibility. You may not want her to die, and want her to be happy, but this is something outside of your control. You cannot make her happy (trust me, been there). You need to learn to let go - which is why I think therapy would benefit you.

"And my children love her.. and they were so excited she was coming back but that makes me so sad too because she doesn't really care that much about them.. particularly my daughter. She massively favours my son and that breaks my heart (tho I shelter my daughter from it and she hasn't noticed.. that will be harder as she gets older)"
And you think you love her?! How would you feel about anyone else who favoured one of your children over another? Honestly, this is something you must not allow. The damage that will be done to your daughter (who will have noticed despite your best efforts) is huge. Your mother is not going to change so the only thing to do is keep the children away from her.

"She has this way of making me feel abusive. She reacts very badly to anything that could be perceived as criticism so you end up avoiding saying anything that could be seen that way. Have to spend massive amounts of energy thinking of the right way to phrase things so that she might listen. She doesn't tend to listen unless it's what she wants to hear.
She constantly tells me and has always told me that I'm oversensitive and too anxious. I feel that I haven't properly explained that I find it too much... "
Typical narc. She'll make you feel like shit but don't dare say anything that she can (and will) twist to make it seem you're criticising her. You are wrecking your head to say things in a kind way, but she keeps moving the goalposts. No, she will only listen to what she wants to hear - she sees you as an extension of herself without any autonomy, therefore you must agree with her at all times.
Being told your oversensitive etc. is something else narcs do, I had it all my life - but you know, strange thing, it only worked one way. I could repeat the same thing back to her and she'd lose the plot, how dare I etc. And trust me, it's not that you haven't properly explained - it's that SHE HAS NO INTENTION OF UNDERSTANDING.

"She didn't speak to me throughout the entire pregnancy including the birth.. only after she ended up in hospital and needed to come back to the UK did she actually answer a call from me. She didn't once ask about the baby or the birth."
It's quite clear that you only matter insofar as what you can do for her. She has no interest in you or your life. And yet you think you love her. It is a hard thing to realise that you don't love your mother, because what sort of awful person would you be if you didn't love her. But it's not love, it's trauma bonding. Love isn't conditional, love is on both sides. The relationship between you and your mother is not love.

"I can't dictate it without her permission as we jointly own the property. (Something she is in denial about and won't discuss)"
Can you get legal advice?

I know you've more posts but I reckon the above is quite a bit to chew on. I sympathise hugely as I'm still having a very difficult time even though I haven't seen my "mother" in 2 1/2 years. It's horrible and neither you nor I deserved to have mothers like this. But she's not going to change, so if you want things to be different, you have to change. I'm so sorry.

MaryLennoxsScowl · 14/05/2024 13:56

Could you try taking your DH with you to help you set out new boundaries? You say (not him): Mum, I can no longer come over every other day. From now on, I can only come on Tuesdays.
She kicks off, you don’t say a word and don’t try to argue with anything she says or engage at all.

When there’s a pause, say that the French agent has advised the house needs to be on at (whatever price is reasonable). Again ignore everything she says and just let it wash over you. Repeat the price calmly and say this is the only way to sell.

DH is there to support you, and to draw a line. If she gets really awful, he is to be prepared to say, ‘that’s enough Mary, don’t talk to OP that way. We’re leaving now. OP will see you on Tuesday.’

As others have suggested, don’t give any headspace to her crazy plans for the money/her living arrangements. It’s all pie in the sky. The notaire will send each share to you and DM. She can’t take it, and she has no right to it. She won’t be able to arrange to move house by herself if she can’t use the phone or email, anyway.

pontipinemum · 14/05/2024 14:01

Sorry I haven't read the full thread. I'm lunch time skimming.

But I feel for you, and I do get it. My mam is quite similar in a lot of ways. But not at the vulnerable/ frail stage.

I get why you gave her the £900 it was IMO the lesser of two evils you couldn't have her moving in!!

I don't have it to spare but I have saved really hard to give my mam a decent chunk of her deposit just so she has a house and doesn't end up with me.

It's so hard

Peacelily001 · 14/05/2024 14:01

Escapingafter50years · 14/05/2024 13:56

So much of your thread resonates with me. I was brought up by a (covert) narcissist "mother" who has made my life hell, especially in recent years as she has aged. I had to step back from her, felt huge guilt "abandoning" a woman in her late 80s. But she pushed me further than I could cope with. 2 1/2 years NC now and loads of therapy. I hope you might be in a position to get good therapy yourself, I think you need it to absolve yourself from your misplaced guilt. Also read about Fear, Obligation and Guilt, commonly known as FOG.

Obviously it's a terrible situation and you have to feel for someone who has MS. But they don't have the right to demand you set yourself on fire to keep them warm. With a newborn and 2 other children, you have every right, in fact you have a responsiblity, to look after your relationship with them. Your mother being as damaged as she is is not your fault, nor your responsibility. She never dealt with her issues.

I've a few comments on some of your posts, you may find some of them a bit brutal, however they are kindly meant -

"I'm just quite angry but she acts like this is all what anyone would do for a parent and also like it's not really that much but I'm exhausted and barely see my DH."
This is common with narcissistic parents. They are entitled and don't see you as a separate human beings with needs of your own.

"I've always had a difficult relationship with her. ... But I do love her and what her to be in a safe situation."
Not surprised about the difficult relationship, I had a sense of that before getting far into your 2nd paragraph. As to love, I think you're probably trauma bonded to her. Do you think you would love an elderly neighbour if they expected that from you?

"The guilt is horrendous because I know she won't look after herself. And I know she genuinely believes I should do it."
This is like some horrendous game of chicken which she's intent on "winning". She doesn't see the cost to you, or even to herself.

"She could afford a carer.. altho her rent is quite high. She just doesn't want one she says."
A question I learned, far too late in the day, is to ask "What about me?".
You actually matter, but I suspect, like me, you were brought up to feel that you didn't, that her needs mattered above everyone else. I would also point out that your father enabled this, which has caused a lot of damage to your emotional wellbeing.

"The thing is she doesn't have much interest at all in being a mum or a gran."
Exactly like mine. My kids are adults now, she never babysat or minded them, just criticised them and my parenting. My biggest regret is that I didn't walk away from her decades ago. But as a narcissist she felt hugely entitled even though she invested nothing in my children. The end of our relationship was because although she never gave them her time or interest, she felt that during covid they should have stepped up and looked after her. She told me if I was a proper mother she would have a better relationship with her grandchildren. I know it's not likely your mother will see your children into adulthood, but want to point out that if she has no interest now, that is not going to change. I wish someone had alerted me to this when my kids were little.

"I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't know I'd at least tried to do the right thing by her."
But you have. You have bent over backwards to meet her demands, potentially damaging the relationship with your husband to do this. No loving, caring mother would expect this of their child.

"I know the things she does are bad
.. bit I can't stop feeling so sorry for her and so sad. She has no one. And alot of that is to do with her yes.. but it's still deeply sad. I don't want her to die. I want her to be happy. But she is very hard to make happy.."
Thing is, people have to live with the consequences of their own behaviour. Sadly your father enabled so much (probably damaged from his own childhood). Her having no one is on her, and it's not your responsibility. I know it's really hard, but truly it's not your responsibility. You may not want her to die, and want her to be happy, but this is something outside of your control. You cannot make her happy (trust me, been there). You need to learn to let go - which is why I think therapy would benefit you.

"And my children love her.. and they were so excited she was coming back but that makes me so sad too because she doesn't really care that much about them.. particularly my daughter. She massively favours my son and that breaks my heart (tho I shelter my daughter from it and she hasn't noticed.. that will be harder as she gets older)"
And you think you love her?! How would you feel about anyone else who favoured one of your children over another? Honestly, this is something you must not allow. The damage that will be done to your daughter (who will have noticed despite your best efforts) is huge. Your mother is not going to change so the only thing to do is keep the children away from her.

"She has this way of making me feel abusive. She reacts very badly to anything that could be perceived as criticism so you end up avoiding saying anything that could be seen that way. Have to spend massive amounts of energy thinking of the right way to phrase things so that she might listen. She doesn't tend to listen unless it's what she wants to hear.
She constantly tells me and has always told me that I'm oversensitive and too anxious. I feel that I haven't properly explained that I find it too much... "
Typical narc. She'll make you feel like shit but don't dare say anything that she can (and will) twist to make it seem you're criticising her. You are wrecking your head to say things in a kind way, but she keeps moving the goalposts. No, she will only listen to what she wants to hear - she sees you as an extension of herself without any autonomy, therefore you must agree with her at all times.
Being told your oversensitive etc. is something else narcs do, I had it all my life - but you know, strange thing, it only worked one way. I could repeat the same thing back to her and she'd lose the plot, how dare I etc. And trust me, it's not that you haven't properly explained - it's that SHE HAS NO INTENTION OF UNDERSTANDING.

"She didn't speak to me throughout the entire pregnancy including the birth.. only after she ended up in hospital and needed to come back to the UK did she actually answer a call from me. She didn't once ask about the baby or the birth."
It's quite clear that you only matter insofar as what you can do for her. She has no interest in you or your life. And yet you think you love her. It is a hard thing to realise that you don't love your mother, because what sort of awful person would you be if you didn't love her. But it's not love, it's trauma bonding. Love isn't conditional, love is on both sides. The relationship between you and your mother is not love.

"I can't dictate it without her permission as we jointly own the property. (Something she is in denial about and won't discuss)"
Can you get legal advice?

I know you've more posts but I reckon the above is quite a bit to chew on. I sympathise hugely as I'm still having a very difficult time even though I haven't seen my "mother" in 2 1/2 years. It's horrible and neither you nor I deserved to have mothers like this. But she's not going to change, so if you want things to be different, you have to change. I'm so sorry.

Very wise words here OP ☝🏼

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 14:03

YouSayChorizoIsayChorizo · 14/05/2024 13:47

OP, I wonder if by giving your mother all the care, consideration and attention she didn't give you as a child, you were somehow trying to reset/repair the past?

You sound like a very loving person. Your mother sounds like she has huge unmet needs, and perhaps thought she could fix that by diverting your loving energy away from the people who should be getting it. And that she could hit you with the guilt stick if you objected.

I'm so glad to read from your latest post that you aren't going down that road any more OP. Not letting the pattern of emotional neglect repeat itself in your own family. You've been amazing, you haven't just walked away but negotiated this horrible situation with great skill, grace and strength. Everyone will be so much happier for it - even your Mum, if she has it in her to face the truth.

My mother definitely does have huge unmet needs that now no one can ever meet. She was adopted as a baby.. born in an Irish mother and baby home in the 50s then asopted against her teen mothers wishes (they told her shr could return for the baby when she was married but when she went back my mum had been adopted). She has no memory of it and never even knew until the laws around bio parents contacting children changed. So she was in middle age before she knew.
But God knows what went on in the institution to her as a baby.

OP posts:
Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 14:09

Thankyou to everyone for their advice. I know I need to withdraw from the situation. I'm hoping the car act assessment will be the first step. Going back to the GP tomorrow to see if I can make some headway with her getting set up with NHS care again.
I know once I've tried to set these things up.. if she rejects them then that's her choice.

OP posts:
Ihavehadenoughalready · 14/05/2024 14:14

Omg she's only 67? I thought you were describing someone in their 80s or 90s.

Her "not being able to work a smartphone" is straight up ridiculousness/faux helplessness.

Your mother is horrible.

It pains me every time you say how much you love her. I can't see how you can love someone who demands and coerces "love" from you. She is certainly not showing that she loves you or your family AT ALL. She is being a selfish manipulative "helpless" person on purpose so she doesn't have to be an adult.

You deserve much better and your husband is correct that this woman is taking too much time from you all. And she contributes nothing to your family, not even showing an interest in any of you. It's all about her, isn't it.

3luckystars · 14/05/2024 14:17

Look at this way, if you just act like her for a minute, talk back, tell her she needs to sell that property in France or you are cutting her off, or NO YOU ARE BUSY THIS WEEK AND ARE NOT AVAILABLE AS HER SLAVE, what exactly can she do? Why are you so scared of her being annoyed with you?

She has nobody else.

Why is that???

Why are you afraid to rock the boat. You said yourself she has nobody. She needs you so stop being afraid, you are holding the entire deck of cards.

Find your voice. The first NO is the hardest, then you will be on your way.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 14/05/2024 14:20

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:52

Another issue is that I don't know if its morally right to take that money or not..
In England it would all be her money..
My DH thinks I should take the portion I inherited when the house sells as I won't see any of the rest of it as my mum will squander it, he says my dad would have wanted me to have some of it.
But I'm not sure I agree. My dad didn't know he was ill and died suddenly so that's why he hadn't made a will and that's why I now jointly own this property.. it wasn't his decision its just how French law is.
I know my mother thinks it's wrong. She wouldn't acknowledge it when it first happened just said it wasn't true.. refused to see the notaire.. and when I went (which I had to do as there were tax implications) she burst in halfway thru the appointment and threatened to 'follow me to England and kill' me if I ever dared to 'take any of her money' and the notaire had to ask her to calm down or leave the room.... it was incredibly embarrassing.
So I know it would cause all Hell to break lose if I actually kept this money..
And altho I know she was wrong in how she behaved.. is it really my money morally? Its money my dad earned.. it was his house.
I honestly considered trying to legally hand over the property via the notaire so I could wash my hands of it all.. but my DH didn't agree

Money your dad earned. Money that is yours by the law of the country he and your mother chose to live in.
The fact that you (as a daughter) wouldn´t have any (automatic) rights to your father´s estate doesn´t seem morally right to me... This isn´t about an objective right or wrong but about one´s cultural background and attitudes.

she burst in halfway thru the appointment and threatened to 'follow me to England and kill' me if I ever dared to 'take any of her money' and the notaire had to ask her to calm down or leave the room.... it was incredibly embarrassing.

she is completely unhinged. You should keep her entirely away from your family, especially your DC. You are allowing her too much access (even if it´s supervised access).

I understand that it is incredibly difficult to disengage. But it is (IMO) absolutely neccessary for your safety and well-being. And the safety and well-being of your family and your relationship to that family (DH, DC).

If (and that is a big IF) something were to happen to your DM, that wouldn´t be your fault. It would be caused by her refusing care. It would be caused by her refusing to accept (outside) help when you have reapetedly tried to make her understand that she can´t solely rely on you. It wouldn´t be caused by your refusal to sacrifice yourself!

Beautiful3 · 14/05/2024 14:31

You've got another 20 -25 years of this! She's still young! Put your boundaries in place now and get her set up with social services.

LovedFedAndNoonesDead · 14/05/2024 14:48

Alwaysgothiccups · 13/05/2024 22:25

She is applying for attendance allowance she has agreed to do that and I am helping her fill that in.
She does receive PIP. She has a good income.. more than my DH who works full time as a nurse. She could afford a carer.. altho her rent is quite high. She just doesn't want one she says.

have only read OPs posts so don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this.

If she already gets PIP then I don’t think she is also entitled to claim AA as it’s the equivalent disability benefit for those past working age. I would look into it as higher rate PIP with the mobility component is worth quite a bit more than AA which has no mobility component.

gertrudeteacake · 14/05/2024 14:51

InfiniteTeas · 14/05/2024 07:51

As the child of a selfish, unloving father who only cared about people for what they could do for him, I'm going to be blunt.

Your mother will never love you the way you want her to. She will never acknowledge all your efforts to help her. She will never say 'You've been a wonderful daughter to me. Thank you.' She will wring everything she can out of you and never thank you for it, and one day she will die and you will be left feeling empty and resentful and guilty.

Or you could make every effort to get to the place I eventually reached, where my father died and I let myself acknowledge the fact that I quite simply didn't care. If anything, it was a relief to know that those occasional twinges of guilt about the 'poor, lonely old man' wouldn't come again. NB, he wasn't a poor, lonely old man. He was a perfectly content man who rather liked the sympathy he got about his distant daughter.

Some people are just complete arseholes, and when they get old and ill, they don't magically turn into poor, deserving saints, but people tend to get sentimental over them, making it very difficult for the lifelong targets of their arseholery to detach and feel good about their decisions.

For your own sake, and for the sake of your husband and children - who did not sign up for martyrdom at the altar of this unpleasant woman - you need to find a way to detach. Not doing so is actually a sort of selfishness. You want to protect yourself from the feelings of guilt and shame that you know will come, so you're throwing your family under the bus to keep those emotions at bay. Who is more deserving of you time and energy? Your mother? Or your husband and children? You know perfectly well what you need to do - you just don't want to do it. Your time/money would be better spent on some therapy to help you detach.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I've been through it in a more distant way - no caring responsibilties, just the knee-jerk guilt to deal with - and I know it's hard. But feeling bad about something doesn't justify sacrificing everyone else around you, and your own wellbeing.

This is an excellent post. OP, your need to 'not feel guilty' is actually an indulgence you can't afford to act on. You being a martyr is fulfilling something in you, at the expense of your husband and children. I feel for you so much, but you have to take some responsibility here in bringing this folie a deux to a close.

Hamsterfan · 14/05/2024 14:52

If she was receiving PIP think about what that is for. It is to try and meet the increased costs of living independently ie it is to be spent on assistance/aids not to go into her pocket whilst you do all the work for free!

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 14:59

Omg this is probably massively outing but I've just come across her in the town where I live...
Apparently she got the bus in!
Which in one way is good as it means she can do her own shopping I guess..
But I'm another way its incredibly stressful because having been out with her a lot I know she often falls in the road and cannot get her chair back over her front step into her house alone..
I'm guessing she assumes I will walk back with her or get my DH to drive her home when he finishes work..
Do I just leave her to it?
She has seen me and I said hello..
I just leave her to it don't I? If she can get out then she can get in alone?
It's just people know me here and they know she's my mum and if they see her struggling they might call me or think badly of me?
But this is a boundary I had that I could only help her every other day, not every day...

OP posts:
Yalta · 14/05/2024 15:00

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:52

Another issue is that I don't know if its morally right to take that money or not..
In England it would all be her money..
My DH thinks I should take the portion I inherited when the house sells as I won't see any of the rest of it as my mum will squander it, he says my dad would have wanted me to have some of it.
But I'm not sure I agree. My dad didn't know he was ill and died suddenly so that's why he hadn't made a will and that's why I now jointly own this property.. it wasn't his decision its just how French law is.
I know my mother thinks it's wrong. She wouldn't acknowledge it when it first happened just said it wasn't true.. refused to see the notaire.. and when I went (which I had to do as there were tax implications) she burst in halfway thru the appointment and threatened to 'follow me to England and kill' me if I ever dared to 'take any of her money' and the notaire had to ask her to calm down or leave the room.... it was incredibly embarrassing.
So I know it would cause all Hell to break lose if I actually kept this money..
And altho I know she was wrong in how she behaved.. is it really my money morally? Its money my dad earned.. it was his house.
I honestly considered trying to legally hand over the property via the notaire so I could wash my hands of it all.. but my DH didn't agree

You are doing everything to martyr yourself and are putting your mother above the law.

The inheritance issue isn’t a moral issue it is a legal issue. The law in France which is where the house is and where your df died says you inherited 50% of the house.

If your mother and father didn’t like the laws they could have moved to a different country

it isn’t as though it was some secret law that came as a surprise to her.

Forget what your mother says and look at what laws states

Why are you making excuses for someone who threatened to kill you

Are you sure your mother hasn’t got dementia as well as MS because she is behaving completely irrationally and you seemed to have bought into her madness