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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my DM expects a ridiculous amount?

552 replies

Alwaysgothiccups · 13/05/2024 22:09

My DM has MS and can only walk a few steps.. she has an electric wheelchair.
My dad was her carer and they were living abroad but he died just over a year ago. She tried to live alone in her house there (after a stint living with me in my house which was completely unsuitable as is a terraced house) but failed and ended up in hospital for 5 weeks. She wasn't eating or washing etc..
I have 3 primary aged children, the youngest is 2mnths old. I am on maternity leave currently from my job which is permanent 12 hour night shifts in a hospital Friday,Saturdays and some Sundays. I do not drive. My DH is a nurse and also works long shifts but only days. He does drive. He is working ATM as he only got 2 weeks paternity.

My DM has returned to England and now lives 15 min drive (40 min walk) away from us.
She is basically saying she doesn't need carers.
Yet I have been going round every other weekday and weekends to cook, clean and make phone calls do admin for her etc.. She also needs support going outside anywhere.. can't open doors,can't get her wheelchair back up the curb if she falls off which she often does..
I have also had to give her 900 quid despite her having an income the same as my husbands (she's terrible with money) that 900 quid was all of my savings for a specific thing my child needs.
I'm just quite angry but she acts like this is all what anyone would do for a parent and also like it's not really that much but I'm exhausted and barely see my DH.
I'm trying to get her to accept a care act assessment but she won't and just says she doesn't need care abd doesn't want strangers interfering.
I can't just leave her as she would stop eating and washing again... she almost died when she went and tried to live alone.
It's putting a strain on my marriage now. My DH is a very kind man but he's sick and tired of being at her back and call.
I've always had a difficult relationship with her. I left home in my teens and they moved abroad in my early 20s.
But I do love her and what her to be in a safe situation.
AIBU to think she is actually expecting far too much from me and it isn't normal?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:09

tara66 · 14/05/2024 12:01

Re. French property - is it on with agents who have UK clients perhaps like Leggetts (who I have never used). Have you tried different agents ? There are UK buyers who want a wreck in France to do up. Do you have multiple agents? Do you have a good Notaire who you/your mother know/ have contacted? . Some Notaires also sell properties too. Can you find out if the property could be auctioned? This time of year is for selling. It will be costing money in taxes, utilities and necessary gardening. until sold.

It's on with leggetts yes and they were great.. gave great advice.. they were the initial ones I spoke to however my mum fell out with them! She put the property on with lots of other agents whilst she was back in France and I've not met any or been part of those discussions.. beyond signing forms I was sent.. which I just signed because I was heavily pregnant and ill and didn't have the strength to query
The notaire was good I did go to see him myself.. he explained things and spoke good English. But again the problem is I can do nothing without my mother's consent.

OP posts:
Mirabai · 14/05/2024 12:09

OP have you said anywhere whether you have PoA?

Thelnebriati · 14/05/2024 12:15

Please google FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt. You feel obliged to do a ridiculous amount for your Mum, far beyond what is acceptable. You feel there would be negative consequences if you don't.
But you seem to be stopping her from feeling any negative consequences of her actions, and taking them all yourself. You don't have to give so much that you are taking from your own family.

Ponoka7 · 14/05/2024 12:22

@Alwaysgothiccups does she gave the falls, disability services involved at all? She doesn't need to be under SS to get a personal alarm connected to a phone, if she has a fall. You can self refer to some of the services, they will be listed on your local council website. It's been said but you are choosing her over yourself, your children and your marriage. Many people have to allow their relatives to go into crisis. You need to read around FOG and this subject.

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:23

Silvers11 · 14/05/2024 10:35

Those 'yes, but.....' responses are very worrying in my view. I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown by the time my Mother died and I did have boundaries in place - but she tried constantly to get round them. And the constant accusations of being 'selfish' were very hard to cope with. I even walked out of her house on several occasions. I do know how difficult it is to be guilt tripped.

The OP cannot do what she is trying to do, without something having to give. But as you say, she doesn't really seem to want to hear that sadly, even although she is looking for advice

It's a long road.
I have posted about it before.. but I do feel I've made some progress. Such as she is not living in my home any more! I've managed to set firm boundaries so that she's not even set foot in my home since she left and nor will she after the things she did.
It's hard tho and I do occasionally need emotional support.. mumsnet is good for getting people to talk sense to you. It's not easy when you see how frail she is in real life.. she cries when I leave her flat in the evening.
I know its frustrating for people who've read my previous posts. But I do understand I have to cut back what I do for her.. I'm working towards getting in a position where I can do that.
I've already cut down to only seeing her every other day. I've clearly pointed out to her when I'm unavailable and not budged on it.
I need to scale it back more that's true and is something I am working on.
She fully expected my husband to go across to France and collect some of her things.. not even offering petrol money.. we said a clear no. She expected me to go over to France to facilitate some medical care there in August, and stay with her whilst she recovered.. I said no.

But obviously there are things I need to sort out so that I can withdraw in good conscience.. like getting her medical care properly transferred over to England.
Buts it's painful and it's hard.
When I started posting just after my dad's death I genuinely thought I'd be her full time carer and we'd both sell the houses and all live together and be together as a family...
I've come a long way from that.

OP posts:
Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:25

Mirabai · 14/05/2024 12:09

OP have you said anywhere whether you have PoA?

No I don't have POA. I've asked her but she says no I don't need it.
She acts like I'm on the take.
She had POA over her own mother and I think financially abused her to some extent. I think that she assumes that's what would happen to her.

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 14/05/2024 12:25

I know it sounds cruel but she needs to struggle, before realising she needs help. That way she'll sell the property at a fairer price, before moving into a warden controlled flat. You jumping in and helping everytime, isn't actually helpful.

Noseybookworm · 14/05/2024 12:28

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 11:55

You are absolutely right. It's just so draining having to constantly feel like you are being nasty to someone. I know I wouldn't be but that's how she makes it feel.
With a reasonable person it wouldn't be that stressful to have boundaries. But it's like she just doesn't acknowledge the world beyond her own wants and needs.
So it's so easy to slip into just doing what she wants as even though it's physically tiring it can be less emotionally draining than conflict. I know I need to work on this
But again it's a long road as I have been raised to be a people pleaser and to feel like I am responsible for her behaviour and emotions.
It's so funny, I had a group therapy session today regarding post natal anxiety.. and I realised I spent the first half of it applying the stuff to my mother 'is this what she felt like? Is this why she did x y z.. how did she feel?'
And I had to have a word with myself about how I was supposed to be applying these things to me and thinking about myself... not constantly trying to understand my mother and what might help her feel better. Absolutely ridiculous how I am!

You're not ridiculous, you sound like a lovely, kind, caring person which is what makes it so difficult for you to prioritise your own needs! Tell yourself you have to cut back on helping mum so you can look after your children and maintain a good relationship with your husband. I totally understand feeling so responsible for your mum with her MS, it's a horrible condition. Can you speak to her MS nurse/consultant and ask them to broach the subject of outside support being needed?

Thelnebriati · 14/05/2024 12:28

She acts like I'm on the take.

But you are not on the take. She is manipulative and controlling. You can't change her, but you can change the way you respond to her.

notanotherrokabag · 14/05/2024 12:36

If you won't withdraw for yourself, do it for your child. Now. Not after x,y,z

They can start her medical care from scratch - it'll be a new referral anyway, not a transfer.

Withdraw now or you never will. Sometimes you just have to let the crisis happen.

MyFirstLittlePony · 14/05/2024 12:40

Just because she thinks it is what a daughter should do (did she do this for her own parents?even if so) does not mean you should.

You have a lot on your plate, your own wonderful husband and kids (and yourself) come first.

start withdrawing care (abd start caring for yourself) and also inform the council if she stops washing/looking after herself that she needs care

just because she is old and she is your mum does not mean she is not selfish

If she loves you as much as she says, she’d not want you to give up your own life like this

ditch the guilt. You do not owe her to be her carer

HoraceGoesBonkers · 14/05/2024 12:41

Op, the crying when you leave - that's another boundary right there that she's crossing. If she's genuinely that depressed that she's crying because she won't see you for less than 48 hours then she needs help from her GP and signposting to proper support with mobility, clubs, all that sort of thing. You can't fix that and if you try do you'll make yourself more ill.

FloofyKat · 14/05/2024 12:42

Every other day is too much. She will continue to be happily dependent on you if you maintain this. Drop to once a week and be strict about how long you stay. You have to break this cycle. What’s going to be worse? Guilt over feeling you have let your mother down or guilt over a broken marriage and fractured relationships with your children because you refused to put them first?

It’s a cliche, I know, but it’s time for you to act and show tough love. Of course it will hard but if you want things to change, you have to change your responses.

Yalta · 14/05/2024 12:43

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 11:47

I can't dictate it without her permission as we jointly own the property. (Something she is in denial about and won't discuss)
I agreed the initial amount just after my dad died when both my mother and I discussed it with an estate agent in the area.. I signed off on all of that. But the property is in a lot worse state now and not selling... my mum refuses to discuss it with me as she doesn't feel I should have any say in the matter.
I don't really want to be attached legally to the property.. I got advise on here before about how to disinherit myself but this is again something that causes tension between my husband and I as he feels it would effect the children were I to do that. But I feel its more trouble than its worth.
My mum is also constantly talking about buying near me... she could not afford anything here and its a valley so would be very unsuitable for her mobility needs.. but she lives in a fantasy land.
I know full well anything she buys will just be taken off her to pay for her care when she inevitably goes into a care home as she hasn't taken reasonable steps to allow herself to remain independent.
The sensible thing to do would be for her to rent and use the money from the house sale on carers to come in and help her.. and just enjoy her life outside of a care home for as long as possible.
But she just won't consider the future.. she wants all the money (including what I legally own) to go into buying her a house.. whose going to look after the house? How is she going to be able to live long term in a house when she can hardly stand?

None of this is something you need to worry about.

Say that’s nice dear and forget it because even if the house abroad does sell she won’t be getting all the money hitting her bank as the solicitor will be sending you your half so she won’t be able to afford anything anyway

I think you are taking her fantasies seriously and tying yourself in knots and giving headspace trying to prove that these fantasy’s aren’t going to happen

The more you take her seriously the more she will continue to live in her fantasy world

Friend who was a geriatric nurse said she hardly listened to what some patients chatted about because if you took all what was said seriously you wouldn’t be able to do the job

”I know” “Thats’s nice” and “Really” were her standard go to remarks

Take a step back. After all for any of these fantasies to happen your dm would have to actually do something

Purplebunnie · 14/05/2024 12:48

Could you spend any holiday if you are planning one at the house in France and perhaps do some remedial work on it and assess it's state,

Would your mother accept a long term rental of the property. I appreciate you said it wasn't a tourist area so not possible for short holiday lets

It's not solving the problem but you may get some income from this to help both you and your mother

Yalta · 14/05/2024 12:51

She is crying because she won’t be able to abuse you, order you around for 48hours

Crying is emotional blackmail. I wonder if you showed it didn’t affect you how long it would be before the crying stopped and some other emotional use happened

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:52

Yalta · 14/05/2024 12:43

None of this is something you need to worry about.

Say that’s nice dear and forget it because even if the house abroad does sell she won’t be getting all the money hitting her bank as the solicitor will be sending you your half so she won’t be able to afford anything anyway

I think you are taking her fantasies seriously and tying yourself in knots and giving headspace trying to prove that these fantasy’s aren’t going to happen

The more you take her seriously the more she will continue to live in her fantasy world

Friend who was a geriatric nurse said she hardly listened to what some patients chatted about because if you took all what was said seriously you wouldn’t be able to do the job

”I know” “Thats’s nice” and “Really” were her standard go to remarks

Take a step back. After all for any of these fantasies to happen your dm would have to actually do something

Another issue is that I don't know if its morally right to take that money or not..
In England it would all be her money..
My DH thinks I should take the portion I inherited when the house sells as I won't see any of the rest of it as my mum will squander it, he says my dad would have wanted me to have some of it.
But I'm not sure I agree. My dad didn't know he was ill and died suddenly so that's why he hadn't made a will and that's why I now jointly own this property.. it wasn't his decision its just how French law is.
I know my mother thinks it's wrong. She wouldn't acknowledge it when it first happened just said it wasn't true.. refused to see the notaire.. and when I went (which I had to do as there were tax implications) she burst in halfway thru the appointment and threatened to 'follow me to England and kill' me if I ever dared to 'take any of her money' and the notaire had to ask her to calm down or leave the room.... it was incredibly embarrassing.
So I know it would cause all Hell to break lose if I actually kept this money..
And altho I know she was wrong in how she behaved.. is it really my money morally? Its money my dad earned.. it was his house.
I honestly considered trying to legally hand over the property via the notaire so I could wash my hands of it all.. but my DH didn't agree

OP posts:
CinnamonTart · 14/05/2024 12:56

... she burst in halfway thru the appointment and threatened to 'follow me to England and kill' me if I ever dared to 'take any of her money'

Can you see how wrong this is?

That’s absolutely grounds for no contact at all. Ever.

And please don’t let your greedy selfish mum result in your new baby having attachment issues because you’re spending to much time and effort on her.

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:57

Purplebunnie · 14/05/2024 12:48

Could you spend any holiday if you are planning one at the house in France and perhaps do some remedial work on it and assess it's state,

Would your mother accept a long term rental of the property. I appreciate you said it wasn't a tourist area so not possible for short holiday lets

It's not solving the problem but you may get some income from this to help both you and your mother

After my dad died I spent two months there clearing it out and doing work..
However my mum is a hoarder and since she went back there had amassed a load of stuff again..
I also spent a great deal of money getting over there snd staying..
I now have no savings left. I also do t have passports for 2 of my children and my DH has no more time off work other than a week which we are booked to go camping and I'm not sacrificing that.
So I've told her I'm not even considering going across there until winter

OP posts:
tara66 · 14/05/2024 12:59

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 12:09

It's on with leggetts yes and they were great.. gave great advice.. they were the initial ones I spoke to however my mum fell out with them! She put the property on with lots of other agents whilst she was back in France and I've not met any or been part of those discussions.. beyond signing forms I was sent.. which I just signed because I was heavily pregnant and ill and didn't have the strength to query
The notaire was good I did go to see him myself.. he explained things and spoke good English. But again the problem is I can do nothing without my mother's consent.

Was the house only in mother's name when bought? Because according to French law you should have inherited a share of the house directly from your fathet) (if he own any of it) as children have to inherit in France - so mother may own 1/2 from original purchase and you own at least 1/3 of father's half? So you must have some say in agents etc. It is known that part owners caused by death of parent can control proceeds by not agreeing with other owner(s) so perhaps you have more control than you think?

GeorgeCrabtreesAuntBegonia · 14/05/2024 12:59

https://personalalarms.ageco.co.uk/pages/age-co-fall-alarms-age-uk-age-4327?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwl4yyBhAgEiwADSEjeBY15tYTA5AVC8LYC20-Q1J4iZvaIsfGsQfyOCqNl_duegFwsvPWKxoC90AQAvD_BwE

One of these may help. If she falls or is sick then there is a monitoring service and she has someone to call on immediately. Just make sure it isn’t you.
There are cheaper alarms that hang on a cord around her neck if she doesn’t want to pay this amount. The trouble with those are that it is easy to drop them or, like my mum did, hang them somewhere completely inaccessible if they fall. The wristwatch type alarm will stay in place.
Knowing these alarms will keep her relatively safe will take a huge layer of stress from you and leave no reason to guilt trip you either.

Age Co Fall Alarms from Age Co Landing Page

Get help when you fall with an Age Co Fall Alarm from only £23.99 per month.

https://personalalarms.ageco.co.uk/pages/age-co-fall-alarms-age-uk-age-4327?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwl4yyBhAgEiwADSEjeBY15tYTA5AVC8LYC20-Q1J4iZvaIsfGsQfyOCqNl_duegFwsvPWKxoC90AQAvD_BwE

Alwaysgothiccups · 14/05/2024 13:01

CinnamonTart · 14/05/2024 12:56

... she burst in halfway thru the appointment and threatened to 'follow me to England and kill' me if I ever dared to 'take any of her money'

Can you see how wrong this is?

That’s absolutely grounds for no contact at all. Ever.

And please don’t let your greedy selfish mum result in your new baby having attachment issues because you’re spending to much time and effort on her.

I let it go at the time (other than saying please dont speak to me like that) as she had recently found her husband dead.. but yes. Its all added up the things she's done and said... it's why I've moved from wanting us all to live together.. to now wanting to get ss involved so that I can slowly withdraw and have her in my life as little as possible

OP posts:
DriftingDora · 14/05/2024 13:04

No, you didn't have to give her £900. You were silly enough to do it. There's a difference.

You don't have to enable her, it's not compulsory.

lotsofdogshere · 14/05/2024 13:04

Your mother needs to complete the health and financial sections of LPA, without delay. She needs a current Will.
You will be worn out if things don’t change. There needs to be a care package in place. Your mum sounds likely to resist. A skilled social worker might be able to use persuasion but whatever is used, mum has to accept a care package.
dont let guilt and overwhelming feelings of responsibility get in the way. You collapse and who looks after you, husband, children.
LPA is straightforward - I’ve just completed mine. I don’t want my adult children left with things to sort out that I can prevent.

Saschka · 14/05/2024 13:06

OP, I haven’t seen anyone mention parentification yet, but it sounds like that’s what happened to you - mum demanding all the care and attention, and you being forced to support her and your dad’s emotional needs instead of being parented by them.

See if this rings any bells. Your mum is continuing to demand from you because she doesn’t see you as her child who she has a responsibility to, she see you as her slave who owes her whatever she wants, whenever she wants. Literally nothing will ever be enough for her - once she has leeched all the energy form you, and put you in hospital, she will move on to somebody else and bleed them dry too. Possibly your daughter.

The Challenges of Life After Parentification and Emotional Neglect

What happens if you are put into an adult role of caring for your family when you are a child? You can end up being an excellent caretaker of others but a poor one for yourself.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/childhood-emotional-neglect/202308/to-be-parentified-is-to-grow-up-with-emotional-neglect?amp

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