“Women and birthing people. “

[Riapia]

Who said that?
A doula on the PM Programme on BBC R4 tonight between 5.40 and 5.45.

@Mackmacking

Nice to see you’ve now stopped directly accusing me and started saying ‘she’ and ‘her’ as if referring to all woman who refuse or aren’t offered the correct pain relief.

Some argue pain relief is damaging to baby but you don’t accuse them of being neglectful selfish child abusers but you believe those who don’t have pain relief even if it wasn’t their choice it was because of a shit midwife mean those mothers are neglectful selfish child abusers. Your comments are laughable 😂

@Mackmacking

The menopause is a natural time of ageing and in the UK the average age is 51 years. But, around 1 in 100 people usually experience the menopause before the age of 40 years."

So is that 1 in 100 people? 1 in 100 women? Who knows? After all, around 50 in 100 people don't experience the menopause at all.

please answer this question, is it 1% or 2% of women who experience menopause before the age of 40? @Mackmacking

People = Any human.

Women = Human Females

You are a midwife, you job is to listen to women’s concerns! Not just a tiny subsection of women but all women, including those middle class hetro ones you seem to despise.

Because its always women who decline

'At least they mentioned me'.

Bollocks to that.

@Mackmacking
Good girl stopping with the direct abuse

Still couldn't answer me though. Enough said. 👏

1% of people who can experience menopause.

There are some people who cant even though they were born with the anatomy associated with menopause.

Its ironic to see a "feminist" use demeaning language to women.

@Mackmacking
Where did I claim to be or not be a feminist.... making stuff up again. Bless you

It's 32 years since my emergency C-section and I have no idea what pain relief I was given during the op or what was in my system in the hours immediately following. In those days you stayed on the post-natal ward for 5 days afterwards. I'm pretty certain the only pain relief I was given during that time was paracetamol. It was enough. With the support of excellent midwives (I was very lucky) I did manage to establish breastfeeding during that time. I would have refused stronger painkillers as I didn't want them to go into my baby's bloodstream. This is not because I am a martyr, it's because her welfare was absolutely paramount to me. If I'd been in agony or had an infection, of course I would have had to re-consider.

I gather that in the years since it's become standard to discharge women far earlier. Was that in response to women saying they wanted to go home sooner, because it's quieter and more comfortable and they want to get back to their older children? Or is it because of budgetary pressures? Or a bit of both? Do women get adequate home visits from the community midwives in the days immediately following a section? It is major abdominal surgery, after all! I was glad to be looked after for a few days before going home.

Was she the one that was trying to suggest that birth trauma was mostly a matter of women having too high expectations as a result of having gone to the wrong antenatal class? Or was that the other one? They were as condescending as each other, I think that's part of the problem.

So the article as written isn't clear. It's very well established, isn't it, that health education messages need to be written in very simple, clear language so they get through to people with English as an additional language, people with very poor literacy and people who had minimal science education at school. It's very noticeable that health education campaigns and articles aimed at men usually employ very direct language and talk about 'men', not 'people'. It's the stuff aimed at women that gets the inclusive language treatment, and consequently probably goes over the head of a large part of its target audience.

Oh i didnt want to assume that you just seep internalised misogyny and that is why ypu referred to a grown woman as a girl. I try to see the best in people.

People who speak english as an additonal language arent stupid. Theyd automatically assume it means people who have periods. We can often translate most things anyway.

I try to see the best in people

From your earlier posts on this thread:

The 40 year old with the spineless husband and bratty toddler who thinks the world owes her something makes your shift a shitty one. I know who the majority of midwives would want to care for and it's very rarely Petunia and Monty.

The thing is, as a maternity service, its far more challenging to be responsive to the ridiculous demands and beliefs of the heterosexual middle classes than it is to respect the pronouns of someone more masculine than most of your husbands. If anything, it helps me practice compassion for when Mrs Lafayette-Smythe wants a homebirth despite placenta praevia.

A lot of the literature in the NHS related to sex and things like therapy uses fully inclusive language now. So youll find info about prostate cancer that is inclusive of trans women.

Who cares. Live & let live.

Yeah i do try. With some types you just cant.

The doula literally said women though?

I never said they were stupid. It's a medical term. It needs to be explained in clear language, making it clear exactly which people in the population are affected by the issue. With terms like 'male menopause' in widespread use, and many vociferous people asserting that there are more than two sexes, a lot of people are very confused indeed about all matters relating to the female body and reproductive system.

These are the types who do things like complain the mum in a side room has visitors all day and she "needs to rest" when they should be focusing on a consistent support network for themselves.

@Mackmacking So some men in a tribe somewhere very remote allowing babies to comfort themselves on the nipple where food is scarce and formula is much less safe are a good reason for men to use nasty drugs to induce faux lactation which will interfere with the feeding dyad, disrupt mums supply and is done with neither necessity nor biological imperative? I think you've missed a few straws to clutch.

Btw, not speaking English is very far from stupid. No one said that. Language still needs to be crystal clear where there is a language barrier and also where there are disabilities and learning difficulties, or are those women worth less to you?

As someone who actually has to explain medical things to people with various communication barriers, this is a straw man. It just isnt a problem when using inclusive language in heathcare.

@Mackmacking
"I try to see the best in people"

Who are you kidding

With some types you just can't Maybe this was carelessly phrased, but it sounds like stereotyping to me. Disappointing to find an HCP openly expressing prejudice like that.

There are many communities that do this. Thats just the most studied.

Do you know that we also give women those drugs? Adoptive parents, women with no/low milk supply.

Recently a lactation consultant friend successully helped a woman breastfeed her 9 month old baby using those drugs. Do you object to that?

I work solely with service users who are vulnerable so that is why i know inclusive language makes no difference to their ability to make informed choices.