To be angry so many girls schools are going Co-Ed?

[FaeryRing]

Yet again it’s been proven girls do better in single sex schools (I have a son as well as a daughter so please don’t think I’m ’hating on boys’).

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/12/girls-do-better-in-exams-at-all-girls-schools-than-mixed-research-finds

In my hometown growing up there were 4 girls schools. 1 grammar, 1 private, and 2 regular secondaries, meaning pretty much all parents regardless of background had access to single sex education for their daughters if they wanted it.

2 have announced their plans to go Co-Ed, with 1 already having done so, leaving just 1 (the grammar, so working class girls will be inherently disadvantaged). This seems to be a pattern across the country.

AIBU to be angry this is happening? Can’t girls have anything to themselves?

Except the only girls that could attend the single sex schools disappearing and the only girls the op cares about are those with rich parents in the top 10 percentage of attainment. I’ll reserve my concern for the hoards of kids with Sen who have no choice and who endure a massively underfunded education. Also the kids being taught in crumbling buildings with over stretched budgets.

Its not just single sex girls schools disappearing but boys schools too.

And finally if you think any school is a “ toxic environment of misogyny, sexism and risk” full of “abuse”raise it with Ofsted as it’s a safeguarding concern and wouldn’t survive any Ofsted inspection. You’ll obviously need evidence though not sweeping unfounded accusations from a MN thread.

'Yeah ok maybe they're cyberbullying'.

Maybe it's just your choice of words but I do feel you've dismissed the seriousness of bullying. Cyberbullying has actually lead to suicide in a significant numbers of cases.

Girls and boys want a variety of choices at 6th form- IB,Btech,Tlevels and a big range of Alevels as opposed to a select few.

How on earth do you suggest small single sex schools provide all that? Single sex schools are disappearing for a reason. Parents and pupils want more choice and the majority of students don’t want to be segregated.

Frankly I’d worry more about what your girls are doing online at secondary. You may just dismiss it but it is worrying and most definitely not sex segregated. They have a dangerous world at their fingertips.

We’re in the unusual position of having both single sex state high schools within our town, we had no real choice where to send our DC.

Both have their faults and from our experience we would have much rather have had a co-ed option for our DC.

This is a sobering read on bullying in general. It would be naive to think this isn't a potential concern in all schools, and we must mot assume SS schools are automatically safer (in fact one 2010 study published on TES suggested bullying is actually more prevalent in SS schools).
https://www.nationalbullyinghelpline.co.uk/bullying-suicide.html

Is there an option for mixed in 6th Form?

The statistics in mixed sex secondary schools were enough to make me send my DD15 to an all girls school.
Yes they do better but also, 8 out of 10 sexual assaults in schools are committed by boys. 3 out of 5 girls have been sexually assaulted in some form.

What impressed you most about the general anti-bullying policy at your daughter's school? So many schools seem to say the right thing but how can we be confident they'll do the right thing?

As for sexual assault, I don't think anyone is denying that it is a genuine worry, because it is, but I'm not sure that educating in a SS bubble is actually addressing the issue on a wider level. Keeping females away from males, and living in (sometimes understandable) fear isn't changing things. Maybe we all need to question our local schools on their policies and approach to sexual harassment, asking how they encourage both reporting and dealing with it - giving a clear message that it's unacceptable.

At my DD’s all girls school the sleepover activity of choice was talking to unknown men on streaming sites as a group. Nearly all her friends had online boyfriends too. It felt very much that having no access to boys pushed them into online activity more. I was shocked at the boy focus on leaving primary frankly. She’d gone from a coed primary just focused on being a child and year 7 was a massive shock.

There are a lot of weirdnesses on this thread.

There shouldn’t be any sexual assault in a school, ever. If there is, and, of course, it has happened, that would be a serious matter for the school. A lot of the sexual assault and, more commonly, sexual bullying, takes place either online or not in school hours. ‘Everyone’s invited’ contained plenty of stories from girls at single sex schools who tended to mix with the opposite sex school at parties etc.

OTOH, I honestly do feel that the girls were far more relaxed at the girls’ school where I taught than the mixed school and, in lessons (I taught Physics), were far more likely to take risks in asking questions and say when they didn’t understand. About 80% of girls chose to stay on to the sixth form when they had the choice (it was a wealthy private school so most had the option to move).

But, for the 20% of girls who chose to move, a lot cited the pressure cooker environment of girls’ friendship groups and felt boys would dilute this.

In my personal opinion, single sex education for girls is a good option and if I had daughters (I have sons) I think I would choose it. It is a lot to cope with hormones, first relationships. social media and academic pressure all at the same time. For the majority of girls I do think a single sex school is a safe space (hate the term) where they can just focus on academics, sports and other cocurricular activities, and they can meet boys after school and weekends and holidays.

Of course it doesn’t mimic a real world workplace and there will be a transition to a university or work place environment, but I feel that hopefully maturity and confidence will already have been gained by then.

And finally, as I have already said, it is horses for courses. We should have all types of school: private, state, single sex, coed, academic, mixed ability, relaxed, strict etc etc. Reducing choice is never a good thing.

@Newbutoldfather

'And finally, as I have already said, it is horses for courses. We should have all types of school: private, state, single sex, coed, academic, mixed ability, relaxed, strict etc etc. Reducing choice is never a good thing.'

Surely you must realise that the mere existence of some of these options doesn't mean they are actually a real choice open to all?
What we actually need is a more equitable access to a decent education for all, regardless of their sex, religion, SEN or any other perceived barrier- that means investing money and resources into CoEd state schools to make them ALL fit for purpose, and not encouraging selective advantage to specific groups.

@KeinLiebeslied54321 ,

State education is very underinvested in, but it is not an either/or situation. I don’t really understand your objection to girls’ schools. I get that they may not be for you or your children, but they work really well for some girls. And it costs no more to fund two 600 pupil schools whether they are single sex or mixed.

Religion and SEN are two completely different topics which I also have views on but, again, they are separate issues. I think there is plenty to discuss without broadening it out.

@Newbutoldfather I have yet to see a justifiable reason for such selection actually providing a long term benefit to ALL girls and women, and society as a whole. Hiding away isn't the answer.
SEN provision is highly relevant because it is part of many girl's lives.

Looks like there may be some truth in what people are saying about girls being worse bullies.

The National Centre for Social Research surveyed 15,500 children for its study, which was commissioned under the previous government.

It found that more pupils taught in a single-sex environment reported abuse from other pupils compared with those who attend co-educational schools.

The report says the findings 'might suggest that there are different kinds of pupil dynamics in single-sex schools that lend themselves to a greater risk of bullying overall'.

By the age of 16, girls in single-sex schools are 'significantly more likely' to suffer threats of violence and actual violence than girls at mixed schools.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291652/Pupils-girls-schools-likely-violently-bullied.html

@KeinLiebeslied54321 ,

It’s not hiding away any more than choosing an all women’s swimming or gym session is, it is making a positive choice to be educated separately.

Your point about it needing to provide a benefit to ALL girls would only be relevant if the suggestion were to abolish coed schools, which it isn’t. As long as it provides a benefit to some girls, it is worth preserving.

As for SEN, I can honestly say that we catered far better for it at the girls’ school. ASD, for instance, manifests itself very differently in girls and boys, and we had lots of CPD on various SEN and how it presented in girls. In addition, a girl with ASD is often trying to decode a very complex (for her) social environment and single sex at least removes one variable.

Women shouldn't have to hide away at the pool or the gym either, that's my whole point. We shouldn't be fostering culture where hiding away from men being the answer to male toxicity. Women/girls should be able to go to any pool session, any gym session, any school, and when they face issues to do with men as they are doing that then we ALL need to speak up, not say 'oh look here's a place where you can hide and we don't have to actually address the issue with men preventing women enjoying mixed sex spaces'. Of course some women may choose to segregate themselves for religious reasons, that is their choice, but my understanding is that is not generally fear driven.
As for SEN, of course it manifests differently in different people, but a good CoEd school should have enough support to be able to deal with different forms of educational need - we need to invest in that, not in segregation.
We both seem to want to the best for girls, we just don't agree on how to do it, but can we both (in fact all of us) make a pact with ourselves to speak up against sexism we we see it and encourage others to do so?
There is also limited evidence on how beneficial SS education is, despite some posters sharing their anecdotes and then diminishing anything to the contrary!

This thread had taught me there is a real threat to single sex schools by people that seem unable to articulately describe their aversion to them - beyond simply giving their sons an advantage, and giving their daughters some kind of ‘real life’ experience of sexism and misogyny at a very early age.

I imagine they may have issues themselves that they are unwilling to share or experiences.

We will always have single sex schools because parents see the value in them. It’s as simple as that, and given how toxic the back drop now is with porn, social media etc we can expect to see more demand for them as parents move to protect their children from the worst of it. Let’s come back in ten years and see how it looks then.

Of course it costs more to fund 2 schools instead of one- that’s why they’re merging! You also just cannot offer the same amount of choice or SEN provision.

Girls are visible everywhere.

Back in the real world they are also dealing with misogyny and sexism - sexual assault day in and day out. What you are alluding to is fairytale schooling right now that simply does not exist.

Coping with ASC in single sex schools was far worse for my dc. The ableist mocking language and bullying was at a level I know kids with ASC in other comps just don’t experience. It’s regarded as a fault and being less than perfect. My dd has friends with ASC in the comps and their experience was entirely different, far more nurturing and accepting.

So seventy years of published research and studies are not enough to convince you 🙄

@HumourM3 ,

Seriously?! I did say STEM outcomes were better at single sex for girls…..

1200 pupils = 2 schools x 600

= 2 x 600 pupil mixed schools

or…

1x 600 pupil girls school + 1 x 600 pupil boys school

= costs the same

QED

That’s a unique and unusual experience that has clearly shaped your view understandably, but we are talking about the majority.

This thread has taught me that when one person makes an assumption that others believe that assumption and then make more assumptions. You can 'imagine' as much as you like, but it's meaningless when it is simply your imagination! Why are you, and some others, so intent on shutting girls away instead of actually improving their experience and access to mixed sex spaces?
It's correct that you mention the issues of sexual harassment in CoEd schools, but why are you also brushing off the level of bullying and mental health issues which are seen in ALL schools? Segregation isn't the answer. Men and women both populate this earth, and while there are clearly cases for single sex spaces (changing rooms, toilet) we should be ensuring girls take their space in this mixed world, not pushing them away because we don't want to make efforts to ensure their safety.

Why are you concluding that?
There is nothing to suggest that your experience is any more relevant that pp.