Page 17 | Israel and Eurovision

Carly944 · 2024-05-12T11:16:56+00:00

I've seen all the protests that Israel shouldn't have been allowed to enter the Eurovision. I don't think politics should be part of eurovision Has everyone forgotten that a lot of countries at this stage have invaded each other, and that a lot of countries have a bloody and violent past. The United Kingdom invaded many countries and massacred and killed many many people in the past. Germany have obviously started two world wars. Spain have invaded countries and done a lot of brutality to people in the past. Should none of these countries be allowed to enter eurovision then. If we are going to put politics into it, nearly every European country would be banned from eurovision. Israel is far from the only country in the world that have invaded and massacred people. Its awful, but it has also been awful when other countries did it. And many of them have. So I'm not sure why there was just the call for Israel to be banned

GivePeaceAChance · 13/05/2024 01:49

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 01:44

It’s because you implied she’s some sort of warmonger than someone requires for national service.

The Holocaust Memorial Trust have very set definitions of what is anti-Semitic and making out Jewish people to be supportive of Israel’s actions, without proof, is one of them. Think before you post. Or at least fact check

Do you have any proof of this BTW? Google throws up nothing

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She was interviewed by The Jewish News and confirmed she would be joining the IDF after Eurovision.
In April I think.

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 01:49

Nctodayjan24 · 12/05/2024 14:39

To be fair op there's invasion of two armies with civilians casualties (what Russia did to Ukraine) and there's just an attack on civilians which is currently the issue in Israel.

I don't think they should have been allowed as not only are they not in Europe but also as a protest of the 40,000 dead.

Also the Israeli contingent didn't cover themselves in glory with filming contestants without their consent and the Instagram stories especially those involving Bambi Thug . But they are untouchable it seems (Morroccanoil?)

Are the victims of October 7th not innocent civilians?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 01:51

DramaLlamaBangBang · 12/05/2024 14:42

Agree. This wasn't holding Jewish people responsible. It was protesting against a country being able to use Eurovision as a propoganda tool to show that despite the protests, everyone thinks they are right. The original song was about the October 7th protests. They were asked to change it, initially refused, and when they were threatened with expulsion, a member of the government asked them to change it so they could still go. You would think the Israeli government would have other things on their mind, but no, they weren't too busy to intervene in some singing contest. It was incredibly political. This was one protest that was specifically about the state of Israel, who should be responsible for their actions. Their official fan club were intimidating the Irish contestant, their crew were were filming people without their permission and yet the Dutch were banned for shouting at a photographer.

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Any proof of the allegations at the end of your post?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 01:53

therealcookiemonster · 12/05/2024 14:55

just so you know Eden golan is due to join the IDF on her return to Israel. so effectively Israel entered an idf soldier who will be put there taking part in their military action in gaza after eurovision. that is totally different from someone from any other European nation who is purely a singer and nothing to do with their past atrocities.

personally I don't think either Australia or Israel should be in eurovision.

also the contestants should at least be able to sing.

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Proof?
As others have said Israel are exercising national service. Is she supposed to not go?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 01:54

Letsbuildazoo · 12/05/2024 14:56

Because we can't change the past but can put pressure on a government now to stop what it's doing. Much like when many countries refused to trade with South Africa during apartheid?

Not that boycotting eurovision will have the same impact as stopping trade with a country I know, but the idea was to put pressure on isreal to stop what it's doing. Obviously you can never erase the hurt of anything.

If anything the Eurovision boycott was counterproductive because Israel placed second in the public vote. When people stamp their feet and declare a boycott I do wish they’d think these things through first.

Kandalama · 13/05/2024 02:00

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 01:46

Do you not think October 7th where women were kidnapped and raped and children taken hostage is a horrific atrocity that shouldn’t be silenced?

There is nowhere for Palestinians to go because nobody is offering them refuge. No other Arab countries are interested, nor Europe for Americans

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The poster wasn’t denying October 7th.

There is nowhere for Palestinians to go because they are being bombed all over Gaza. They are told to go to the south as it’s safe then bombed and shot at as they make their way there. Then bombed when they get there and all aid to them is blocked whilst the IDF block or bomb the roads so all passage to them for aid, ambulances and escape are impossible.
Then they are told to go East, West, North again. Again and again whilst they starve to death
There is nowhere for them to go because if they leave they will never be allowed back as Netanyahus plan for Gaza is for it to be replaced by Israel. Its all he wants. It’s All he has ever wanted as he so clearly declared in September 2023 at the UN general council, Have you seen his map!

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:00

Kneidlach · 12/05/2024 15:00

For those who think Israel shouldn’t have been allowed to enter, did you also think the UK shouldn’t have been allowed to in 2003 when we took part in the invasion of Iraq?

It often seems that when it comes to most countries people are willing to see nuance and accept that things are complicated. But when it comes to Israel - let’s all boo any Israeli like a pantomime villain.

In this climate can you really blame some Israelis for adopting a ‘no one like us and we don’t care’ Millwall siege mentality?

My husband served in Iraq, twice. He said on his first toe they were spun the line that they were going in as peacekeepers, that it was an impoverished country they were liberating from evil and oppression and they should be excited. He was told Iraqi’s wanted the Army there. They saw rubbish piles on the way in with children playing on them and they were told thanks to the liberation, the rubbish would all soon be gone, those children will be happier, healthier and wealthier etc.

He said it’s one of the most beautiful countries he’s ever seen, the landscape and rivers are breathtaking.

However early into his first tour he realised the Iraqi’s did NOT want them there. There wasn’t peace keeping, there was murder of wrongly accused people all the time and the Army were absolutely despised.

On his second tour the rubbish piles were twice as high, the children were thinner than ever and the rivers were now polluted and landscapes destroyed.

It was a barbaric and pointless war, so much bloodshed for literally nothing. Iraq had done nothing wrong and we destroyed them.

Yet we still managed to compete in Eurovision

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:02

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 12/05/2024 15:12

Stop suggesting I have said things I haven't - not once did I say that the Nazi regime did not commit horrendous atrocities, I merely stated that other nations also committed atrocities (both in the world wars and at other times). If we mention WW1 or WW2 we cannot be naive enough to only mention the German Reich (which is also distinct from modern Germany).

None of this is whitewashing or being defensive, it's actual factual information which is available to anyone who cares to learn.

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It’s a real shame that people don’t know the wider history of WW1 and WW2 and whilst it is without a doubt that the Nazi regime were definitely the biggest murderers, there’s a lot of nuance around both wars. Especially WW1 when it was largely around allyship rather than liberation, and started as an issue between Serbia and Austria

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:03

therealcookiemonster · 12/05/2024 15:18

I realise that. I wasn't trying to do a gotcha, just making a point that Eden golan is not as far removed from what is happening in gaza as some may think
quite a few israelis have refused military service in recent years and have as a result been imprisoned

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Which begs the question: why is she the bad guy for joining the IDF and not going to prison?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:05

Honeylemonandginger · 12/05/2024 15:33

It must be wonderful to be so “sensible”
Us foolish people just feel so devastated and helpless to see bodies of children on our screens daily.

What has this got to do with Eurovision?

Yea seeing dead children is always awful but do you think it’s only happening in Gaza (where may I remind you they started the war)?

GivePeaceAChance · 13/05/2024 02:05

Wow
Im sure this happened last night on a thread with someone talking to themselves for hours.

🤣

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:06

I actually feel really uncomfortable with people using little more than “but the dead babies” as a ‘gotcha’. It’s used to silent and stifle debate and it’s childish

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:07

Cherrysoup · 12/05/2024 15:36

But possibly not a diplomatic thing to mention in interviews.

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So is she supposed to lie when asked what she’s doing after Eurovision?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:09

GenerationP · 12/05/2024 15:51

Israel are Ukraine in your analogy. It was invaded on 7th October, by Hamas.

It's Israel that ALWAYS gets attacked actually:

The Arab-Israel War of 1948
The Fedayeen of 1948 to 1967
The Six Day war of 1967 (Israel technically started this one but only preemptively as they knew they were about to be attacked)
War of Attrition from 1967 to 1979
Yom Kippur War of 1973
Palestinian Insurgency in South Lebanon from 1971 to 1982
South Lebanon Conflict from 1985 to 2000
First Intifada 1987 to 1993
Second Intifada 2000-2005
Lebanon War in 2006
Gaza war in 2008
Israeli Gaza operation in 2012
Gaza war 2014
Israel-Palestine crisis of 2021

Look at this list, Israel didn't start any of these conflicts.

You can tell who the aggressor is - it's the one favouring eternal war over finding and negotiating a lasting peaceful settlement. Remember the three “Nos” from the Arabs at the end of the Six Day War?; No recognition, no negotiations, no peace.

Israel isn’t perfect, but no country is. Israel has done a lot of good things, and also a lot of bad things - like every single other country on the planet.

Say what you like about the Israelis, they are very tough negotiators, but also pragmatic and interested in solutions. Palestinians and Arab leaders take no responsibility for the disaster they have brought on their own people, both by the ineptness of their leadership and the autocracy and corruption of their governments.

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Great post

And yes Israel have contributed a lot on a global scale. I wonder if people realise how much of their prescribed medication was made in Israel? Or the technology they own? Or the clothing they wear?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:11

EllaDisenchanted · 12/05/2024 16:04

“October 7th protests” What?!

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“I don’t understand why people call me anti-Semitic”

Also:

”The mass murder and rape of Jewish men women and children was just a protest”

frankincenseandmyrrh · 13/05/2024 02:11

therealcookiemonster · 12/05/2024 15:18

I realise that. I wasn't trying to do a gotcha, just making a point that Eden golan is not as far removed from what is happening in gaza as some may think
quite a few israelis have refused military service in recent years and have as a result been imprisoned

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Yes, she's not as far removed as what happened in Gaza to her friends just out enjoying themselves at a music festival on October 7th 2023.

Raped, maimed, slaughtered, murdered, their naked bodies paraded on trucks, taken hostage, disappeared...

Maybe think of them or your sons and daughters next time you or they are at Glastonbury, or any other peaceful celebration or gathering.

therealcookiemonster · 13/05/2024 02:16

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 01:53

Proof?
As others have said Israel are exercising national service. Is she supposed to not go?

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they discussed it on lbc last week. the source was a journalist from Israel I believe.

well a lot of people don't do the mandatory service but obv someone like that would never have been chosen

my point isn't re whether or not Israel should be on eurovision (although I feel they should not have been) or whether she would do her mandatory service (that is entirely her perogative) - my point was simply to demonstrate that Eden golan is not a free agent, she is axiomatically linked to the Israeli government due to her position (especially after Netanyahu publicly sent her a msg of support) and also because she will be serving in the idf and hence she will be part of Israel's military actions. I.e. her presence is not and cannot be apolitical

therealcookiemonster · 13/05/2024 02:18

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:00

My husband served in Iraq, twice. He said on his first toe they were spun the line that they were going in as peacekeepers, that it was an impoverished country they were liberating from evil and oppression and they should be excited. He was told Iraqi’s wanted the Army there. They saw rubbish piles on the way in with children playing on them and they were told thanks to the liberation, the rubbish would all soon be gone, those children will be happier, healthier and wealthier etc.

He said it’s one of the most beautiful countries he’s ever seen, the landscape and rivers are breathtaking.

However early into his first tour he realised the Iraqi’s did NOT want them there. There wasn’t peace keeping, there was murder of wrongly accused people all the time and the Army were absolutely despised.

On his second tour the rubbish piles were twice as high, the children were thinner than ever and the rivers were now polluted and landscapes destroyed.

It was a barbaric and pointless war, so much bloodshed for literally nothing. Iraq had done nothing wrong and we destroyed them.

Yet we still managed to compete in Eurovision

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that is a fair point

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:19

Apolloneuro · 12/05/2024 16:28

But it is becoming increasingly argued by organisations like Amnesty International that Israel is committing war crimes. That’s when it loses any moral high ground, no?

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I wouldn’t listen to a word Amnesty International say after their track record of atrocities and anti-semitism

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:24

Ilovemycatalot · 12/05/2024 16:38

Haven’t read the whole thread but the most shameful thing for me is that the uk public vote gave Israel top points.
I would feel ashamed voting for them knowing they are currently killing innocent civilians and committing war crimes.

Has Eden Golan done that?

Would you like to be judged on the actions of the UK Government? When innocent Iraqis were murdered not that long ago did you take collective responsibility?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:25

JazbayGrapes · 12/05/2024 16:47

Its such a farce. We're supposed to believe that the public gave the highest scores to Israel and Ukraine? It's beyond a joke.

What are you suggesting?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:29

AhNowTed · 12/05/2024 17:12

Seems a lot of this going on.

One person sending out a tweet means it’s definitely widespread

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:31

AhNowTed · 12/05/2024 17:45

@Tattletwat

Proves nothing, sure.

But even you can't be deluded enough to think that vehemently pro-Palestine Ireland actually voted 10 points to Israel.

And the further delusion that this somehow supports a genocidal regime.

So what’s your explanation then?

And do you have data to show Ireland as a whole is pro-Palestine?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:32

Sugarfish · 12/05/2024 18:02

Israel shouldn’t have entered as they were obviously going to attract protests and controversy which have made other contestants feel unsafe.

The Israeli team have reportedly been harassing the other contestants backstage for the last week, a few of them have started to speak out today about the nasty atmosphere, and the general feeling was the Dutch guy’s disqualification was because of conflict between him and the Israeli singer, with the “backstage incident” being used as the “official” reason. Swedish police have confirmed he did nothing criminal. A few contestants threatened to pull out of the final yesterday because of the unfairness.

Eurovision’s biggest sponsor, Moroccan oil, just happen to be an Israeli company. In the end everything comes down to money.

I’ll ask you as no one else has come up with the goods - do you have evidence of Eden Golan harassing anyone?

YaMuvva · 13/05/2024 02:33

StaunchMomma · 12/05/2024 18:05

Israel wasn't invaded. It was subject to a hideous and inexcusable terrorist attack. Nobody denies that.

Their response, however, has been invasion and tens of thousands of innocent lives have been lost as a result.

If the US had flattened Afghanistan in the months after 9-11, killing tens of thousands of innocents, would that have been OK?

If Israel hadn’t responded, what do you think would have happened to more Israeli’s?