To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

[FaeryRing]

It seems like there is nothing the state shouldn’t be responsible for any more! Feeding your kids, getting them to school, hiring ‘behaviour specialists’ for every classroom because parents don’t want to discipline their own children, giving you money towards virtually anything you ask for because it’s not fair you have to pay for anything yourself.. I find it absolutely wild and don’t think it’s at all realistic or representative of what most adults believe?

One often used phrase is on MN is, "We should be teaching this in our schools."

If we taught everything in our schools thar MNers what us to, there'd never be time to teach anything else.

Let’s not forget the demands for teachers to brush their teeth…

Couldn't agree more, OP. I'm fed up of the "should do it in school" brigade, especially when it is reinforced/promised by politicians.

Unfortunately many parents now view school as being a "service" they are a customer of, a.k.a. low-cost childcare, and not a "duty" they have.

Just look at the level of absences. We never, ever had that level "back in the day", someone regularly missing school was a big deal, you just didn't dare.

I agree that schools have far too much on their curriculum already and we expect far too much of schools in many ways. They are there to provide an education and shouldn't be left to sort out wider social issues.

Can I add healthcare? Many people do take responsibility for their health/ managing healthcare conditions. It's hard can have a serious impact on peoples time/ energy / finances. I also appreciate some people struggle with this and will need state help.
However there are a small number of people who think they can do what they like and expect the state to sort out the mess they get into.
I'm not talking about people who don't realise the impact until it's too late, I'm talking about those who make a conscious choice to ignore healthcare advice, then complain.
(I'm also not talking about those who choose to ignore any advice and accept the consequences,just those have been explicitly told if you continue to do X, Y will happen, and then expect the state to sort out Y when is does).

To add a bit more nuance, the state used to take responsibility for a lot of things. Successive governments quietly dropped or privatised them and let poverty increase and infrastructure degrade.

Hence the call for schools to do everything. It's the only institution many people are familiar with and the only one they feel they can influence.

See: schools doing things that were previously done by local authorities, the NHS, social services, youth services, housing.

There is a frighteningly large percentage of the population who seem unable to show any level of personal responsibility.

I am sure lots of people don't actually understand that 'the government ' doesn't actually have any money. The only money they have access to is our money, raised by taxing us, and borrowing.
So all the calls for the government to pay for this or that, or additional funding, can only come from the methods above.

As someone who has no need for the state to provide any of those things for my child as I do it myself, I am still in favour of the state providing plenty of support for children. Bear in mind that the resources different families have, and the quality of parenting between different families varies enormously. You can preach until the cows come home about how parents should be doing and providing all of these things themselves but the reality is that plenty can't or won't and the only hope those children have is the school or state providing for them to slightly narrow the gap between them and their better parented or more resource rich peers.

Someone on another thread suggested two tier pricing at supermarkets should be looked into because some people live chaotic lives 😳

Isn't that what Tesco cards and Nectar cards are for??

Of course I think patents should provide for their children but I don't think children should suffer because they had the misfortune to be born to parents who are unable or unwilling to provide for them. So I absolutely so support having a large state with higher taxes to support this. I think lots of benefits should be universal so that everyone benefits. I support free school meals, free breakfast clubs, free after school extra curricular activities for children, free childcare, extra funding for schools, etc.

However there are a small number of people who think they can do what they like and expect the state to sort out the mess they get into.

And in that case so they should. It's a health service

The state should provide a safety net for children whose parents are not caring for them. But ultimately it’s parent’s responsibility to raise their kids and it’s best for society if they retain that responsibility.

In effect, there is two tier pricing though. It's called market segmentation.
That why TESCO has three of every own brand product. Economy version, normal version, TESCO finest version.
To maximise profits, you want to provide something low income people can afford, alongside something that tempts high income people to pay more.

Please link that thread. I have to see it.

Well we all pay in, so taking more than your fair share on purpose is like stealing supplies. I believe that gets you shot in wartime.

This thread was kind of a straw/camel/break moment for me. People genuinely couldn't understand why the government wouldn't look into it.

Perhaps before the State provides money and services, it should focus on incentives and disincentives that might lessen the demand for these tax-paid services.

Eg incentives to be a responsible parent and prioritise your child’s education
Incentives to look after your own health to reduce risk of avoidable health issues
And disincentives too.

Ethically carried out, of course. But why aren’t parents being incentivised to do these things for the children that people are now calling on schools to pay for?

^ this, exactly, but - particularly in an election year - I wish politicians would be honest about this too. But the public don't want to hear this, and so it continues...

Some of this is true - social services used to teach people how to clean their houses and then if they didn't, no more council housing for them.

Now they are apparently employed as whipping boys for parents who abuse or neglect their children. This is a very poor use of resources.

The state should provide education, and a safety net for the unlucky, but citizens should expect to play their role in that provision - not demand endlessly for themselves (or their children) with no consideration for the public good. We would all benefit from calm, well run schools with zero tolerance for poor behaviour, but it would require everybody to pull their weight and alternative provision for the students who just cannot self calm. It costs and lots of people don't like the idea of violent children being "excluded" even temporarily.

Hmmm, when I was at primary school in the 80s we had dental and eye check-ups at school, and the “nit nurse” used to come and inspect everyone’s heads at least once a term. I just missed out on free milk at school, thanks to Thatcher the Milk Snatcher. My children haven’t had any of those things. In fact, we have to pay for them for them to see a private dentist because we couldn’t find an NHS one with spaces. Child benefit was universal back then too. About a third of the UK population lived in council housing in the late 70s. So I don’t agree that expectations of “the state” are higher now than in the past.

Could you expand on why you have this view? The health service is stretched to breaking point. There is a big focus within healthcare on prevention, so these people are accessing healthcare. However some people deliberately ignore the advice/ intervention given.
We have to be actively involved in our healthcare.
As a tax payer I'd rather the money be spent on those who, as PP have said have never had the resources to learn how to do this, than the few who choose to assume they can ignore advice and then have the state 'pick up the pieces'.
The NHS isn't a bottomless pit of money. We need to take some responsibility ourselves and work with the NHS the best we can.

There’s certainly a dissonance, with regard to the expectation of what schools and teachers can offer.

On a local FB page recently, there was a poll asking which professions are least respected. The vast majority of replies said that teachers were least respected and many declared they wouldn’t be able to do it.

On the other hand, so many complain about the schools their children go to, uniform, homework, detentions, school trips, sanctions, homework, class sizes, bullying etc. So what do we do. Either teachers have the tools, knowledge and expertise to do the job and be paid for it appropriately, with good working conditions and reasonable hours, or we continue what some have called ‘the race to the bottom’.

Many of us loathed school milk - especially in summer, when the crates had been sitting outside since the early morning. But you were expected to drink it.
I imagine that a lot of kids were relieved when Thatcher did away with it.