To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

[FaeryRing]

It seems like there is nothing the state shouldn’t be responsible for any more! Feeding your kids, getting them to school, hiring ‘behaviour specialists’ for every classroom because parents don’t want to discipline their own children, giving you money towards virtually anything you ask for because it’s not fair you have to pay for anything yourself.. I find it absolutely wild and don’t think it’s at all realistic or representative of what most adults believe?

That actually health provision is kind of shit, and it's not simply because someone less deserving got there first

So all your questions focus on the calculation of entitlement. For me it isn't about that. It's about being decent - don't grab more than you need, so there's enough to go round. And if it's couched that way, most people will try not to be grabby.

It isn't just health care. Education is just as bad imo.

Ah yes, the guardian. Nice and unbiased.

its to do with shitty diets and parents not brushing / which the dentist appts would point out. A small child’s dentist appt is just a dentist checking the teeth are cleaned properly. That’s it.

it’s easy to blame the govt but a friend of mine is a prep school teacher and in a class of 18 only 2 put their hands up to say they brushed 2 x a day.

on here you get plenty and on Instagram who think letting their child brush themselves at 4/5 is fine.

people don’t have time to bother parenting as everyone is working. Or they don’t work and cba.

‘ We are wealthier than ever as a nation in terms of real terms gdp. Tax take is higher than ever.

How were previous governments magically able to do more than this one given those two facts?’

Because there are ever increasing demands on the income from tax. The old age pension was originally envisaged as supporting people for eighteen months after retirement! Many conditions which killed people are now survivable (but not curable to the extent of restoring the sufferer to a tax producing condition). Many children who died at or soon after birth are now able to live , but again still requiring care , not producing a surplus. This is not a value judgement, just an economic fact. You can think what you like about it.

Added to these stresses is the increase in population from immigration, which involves educating, providing healthcare, providing accommodation etc to a large number of people who are not immediately generating contributions to the Exchequer. The infrastructure bequeathed by the Victorians is groaning under the increase, and is not, cannot be sufficiently updated . This also contributes to the negative effect on tax derived income.

I have lived in Two European countries, and I have friends in two others. They report very similar stresses, although the larger one benefits from having more usuable space, so can allow more private housing to be built, and has more local food production.

It’s lumbering under complex elderly care. Check out those projections for hip replacements you mentioned.

‘I’m sure there’s a pretty big overlap between those not paying tax and those expecting teachers to potty train their kids’

😂 I’m a betting woman and I’d bet on that..

According to recent research undertaken by StemProtect.co.uk, this isn’t happening, with findings suggesting that less than one-third of children are in fact brushing their teeth regularly enough.

This is exacerbated by an alarming number of parents who claimed not to know how long their children were brushing their teeth for – with around eight in ten parents unaware how long their children were spending brushing their teeth.

I completely agree!
Teachers are there to... teach, not coparent
SEN excluded where there would be a TA to provide help,
Some parents don't think it's important to send DC clean and dry( toilet wise)
Toothbrushes and paste are cheap enough and it was part of my DC' routine along with handwashing before meals
I know most parents work now, but that's an excuse not to teach DC the basics

I don't think what I'm saying is at odds with what you're saying

Yes it's the nanny state that has been burgeoning for the last 3 decades or so.
Morbidly obese? Not my fault. The NHS should fix it.
Me and dope smoking fella been sofa surfing for the last 8 months. I'm 3 months pregnant. Gimme a council house..
Haven't worked for 15 years cos I have a bad back. Got 7 kids in a 3 bed council house. Wife's pregnant again. Gimme a 5 bedroom house. .thes kind of stories appear on social media every day of the week completely with the compo faces and the requisite old sofa dumped in the front garden.

Good to see someone with a grasp of why the NHS was forced into existence. The ones with the inherited power realised the returning soldiers would have easily been organised and a revolution would wipe out their inherited wealth and power. The feckless (google the history of the demonisation of the poor) of the past are the current benefit scroungers and immigrants so beloved of some of our newspapers.

Totally agree OP. Well said

Would it have killed them to have kept it in a fridge though?
Would you drink warm curdled milk that smellt and tasted like vomit ?
Admittedly I went to a very middle class primary school and doubt there were many if any children in my school living below the the poverty line
But that doesn't mean children should br forced to drink something that makes them feel sick ,because there are children worse off than them
I can't drink milk even now and im 50.

The lack of accountability in all areas of modern life is astonishing.

RosesAndHellebores · Today 14:20

Twenty to twenty five years ago, however, I don't recall any 3 to 4 year olds starting school in nappies and I just don't understand what has gone on there. Nurseries for 2.5 and up were draconian in their expectations, rightly or wrongly.

My cousin is a Primary 1 / 2 teacher and she has 6 year olds coming in in nappies, she says the worst offenders are middle class parents. She's been screamed at by at least one mother, for not changing a 6 year old's dirty nappy. She's been told a number of times that it's her job to toilet train children, FGS!

Many of them can't use cutlery and eat cooked meals with their hands etc.

It's madness.

I remember the days of a yearly visit from the school dentist back in the 70s.

I'm just pointing out that this idea wasn't due to parental expectation.

Nor is it new.

Perhaps if foods and drinks that contribute to poor dental health weren't amongst the cheapest peddled to parents struggling to make ends meet, it would help.

Doesn't detract from the fact that overall dental health provision has become a luxury.

But then as they say, the devil's in the detail. Looking at the bigger picture overall is unpalatable for many, because if they find themselves in it one day, they'll have to eat their words.

Perhaps if foods and drinks that contribute to poor dental health weren't amongst the cheapest peddled to parents

This is another reduction of responsibility. Water out of the tap is even cheaper.

The problem with universal services is that when they mandatory for those with choices we lose our voices in relation to quality.

This is a real problem with fsm on a blanket basis. Too often what is provided is sub-optimal but it is "free" so we lose the privilege of complaint. The same goes for education, health visiting, NHS dentistry and as is becoming ever more apparent the NHS. We are supposed to be grateful for sub-optimal services that are simply not good enough, are too often mismanaged and actually are far from free.

I see both sides. Lots of valid points in this thread. I just take umbrage when I get the judgment for expecting my disabled child to receive an education. His needs are too much for mainstream school so the LA just don't provide an education. Parents of kids like this have to fight for the basics that legally their kids are entitled to and there is a lot of judgment aimed at us that we want the tax payer to bankroll everything. I don't. I just want him to have an education like every other child is entitled to

With regard children. Let's say you have shit, can't be bothered parents. That's not the child's fault. Personally I would rather, teachers, health visitors etc took time to help this child learn the importance of teeth brushing (for example). Or had breakfast clubs at school so they could eat. Or spare uniform at school. Would you rather nobody provided these things for the child?

Ah, the sound of a point whistling over someone's head......

People are living longer with much more complex health needs ,people may have gone in a home, in days gone by because, they were widowed ,lonely etc but still.fairly independent with their self care needs
Often those that that are in homes these days Need nursing care ,full assistance with feeding ,dressing etc
I can understand why they are vert expensive.

Somebody else always seems to be the answer. Who should be happy to be taxed into poverty themselves, just to be seen to #bekind.

Ah yes, all these people who are denied safe drinking water at home, and can of course only drink the juice they purchase.. because of course they can't buy bottled water before all the 'whattaboutery' kicks in.

I agree.
It's as we've moved towards a more selfish culture.