To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

[FaeryRing]

It seems like there is nothing the state shouldn’t be responsible for any more! Feeding your kids, getting them to school, hiring ‘behaviour specialists’ for every classroom because parents don’t want to discipline their own children, giving you money towards virtually anything you ask for because it’s not fair you have to pay for anything yourself.. I find it absolutely wild and don’t think it’s at all realistic or representative of what most adults believe?

If we let the "No NHS for you because you have X lifestyle" genie out the bottle and end up leaving some people without care, where the hell do we end up?

with an amazing health service that only treats babies because everyone else is too dirty

The problem with free school milk was that we were made to drink it. Freezing in winter, warm in summer. It was vile.

I agree that the level of state involvement some people expect is ridiculous. However I don’t think schools are being asked to do too much.

Are they being asked to do too much with the funding they’ve got? Yes absolutely. Are they being asked to do too much for a minority of children/by a minority of parents? Yes. But I think it’s a good idea to provide access to play therapists, educational psychologists, pastoral/wellbeing staff, school nurses, etc etc and I wish schools would were better funded for a more holistic provision like that. I also think schools should be teaching “peripheral” subjects which are actually important life skills like personal finance (maybe some of them could then teach their parents).

I’m more bothered by the people who get stuck in the mindset of being “entitled” to a particular number of bedrooms, or a particular amount of benefits payments as long as they don’t work too many hours etc. I’m all for the safety net but that’s what it should be, something to catch you and get you back up again, not catch you in the net and keep you dependent on the state for the rest of your life.

I loved free school milk and used to queue up a few times 😅

Not for the teachers to brush, but supervising fair enough after lunch perhaps?

Also the little bottles and crates were very cute

I get the feeling that the people moaning about warm school milk would be quick to criticise anyone complaining about anything currently provided by the state as an 'extra'.

It shows a total lack of awareness to not even acknowledge that some children really needed that milk as nutrition. They may well not have enjoyed it either, but it was provided as important for their health and growth.

Yes to all this.

I also remember visits from the police to teach us what it’s like doing fingerprints on criminals and they put invisible codes on our bikes for us in case they got stolen and a visit to the local fire station to learn about fire safety and have a go of the hose.

Just to point out that much if state involvement and infrastructure and regulation was brought in after WW2 to appease returning soldiers, ensure the next time we had an army it was fit to fight and to prevent revolution.

Various ideologies have expanded and contracted what's on offer over the years, and we're currently at end stage capitalism which allows rampant asset stripping which in turn plunders state coffers - by design.

I've used this analogy before, but if you give a child an ice cream, then punish them for enjoying it, that's abusive.

Better management is key and understanding why people fall down at "personal responsibility" and targeting resources accordingly would seem like common sense.

Instead we return to the feckless and undeserving narrative. It really ain't as simple as you think, given the speedy evolution of modern society.

I remember having loads of public health intervention in schools during the 70's. Why its not a good idea to eat bogies is now lodged in my head forever thanks to Mrs Scott

But equally feckless, irresponsible people shouldn’t be indirectly encouraged to have lots of children and thereby benefit from the provision/ support offered to children.

Some poster up thread complained that in the 1970s, one third of people lived in social housing. So many posters on here demand a council house and associated conditions for life. There was a thread yesterday from a poster who didn't want to be housed in private housing by her council but be given a proper council house.
Invited immigrant workers into this country to fill key roles is growing. How long can the UK sustain 672,000 net migration each year (2023), mostly new invited workers ( and rising ) each year? The housing crisis will get worse and worse. Don't get me wrong invited migrant workers deserve to be decently housed.
There is more pressure on housing than there has ever been.
A quick Google tells me that 231,100 new homes were built in 2023 in the UK. Notice the 400,000 shortfall in new homes compared to net migration numbers.
The entitlement is that so many expect to be given housing, free medical care, free education, subsidised childcare, free social care.
No Government, whether it is Tory or Labour can pay for it all.

Free in Infant school then. Think had already been abolished in juniors.

I used to have the job or collecting milk crate in for my class and poured my own down the drain everytime. Still can't drink milk

Absolutely this. It makes me so cross to read "the Government should pay for X...." - are people really so dim that they don't understand where the money comes from?

When the government has structured society in such a way that the COL is rising exponentially, wages do not keep up, the markets are rigged, people need two wages to sustain "normal" standards of living and need state top ups to benefit employers, which incidentally is reflected worldwide, they have a choice:

Change things so that social mobility and equitable circumstances exist, or keep a significant amount if people under the thumb to be vilified for the crime of essentially being poor old, sick or disabled.

The whiff of eugenics by stealth gets stronger every day.

I agree. It’s bonkers

Seriously ? Jeez life is mad.

Yep I agree with majority yanbu

Me too! I loved it when it was my turn to be milk monitor, pushing all the straws through the milk tops .

All the rights, no responsibilities.
Yes, I’d be happy for schools to take on all the extra responsibilities of feeding your children, potty training, brushing teeth and teaching them table manners as well as everything else.
But then, before that, the parents need to sign over those children to the school. Abdicating parental rights and responsibilities.
Need the state to raise them? Lose your right to interfere.
The Victorians had a system like that. Called workhouses.
The wealthy had a similar system. Boarding school.
Is that what you want?

I don't know if there's a common expectation?
I dread needing care for my family or myself. Most people I know feel the same. Too many times I've seen news reports on care home abuse, only discovered after a concerned relative installs cameras. I've told my family I'd rather have assisted dying but that's my choice (and something I want at that stage of my life even if every care home was excellent). However my choice should never be expected for everyone. Compassionate care that doesn't cost a fortune should be possible. It used to.

When I was a kid an elderly relative was in what was then called 'an old people's home'. She didn't need nursing care, just a bit of extra support, but It was a mixed needs home. It was a lovely place. Safe, homely environment with good community feel, sense of companionship with other residents, variety of activities for residents, welcoming communal spaces, and kind empathetic staff.

Didn't cost a fortune either, and although wages weren't high there were no staffing issues. Because there was more affordable housing in those days, but also management treated staff well. Staff didn't have unbearable to manage workloads, and residents who needed nursing care had properly trained staff to help them.

Something's gone wrong. Care home costs are skyhigh, and (good) at-home carers are often even more expensive. The problem is the lack of affordable housing, but also I think it's the privatisation of care homes and care services.

With family caring for elderly relatives. In the past there were more SAHP so this was more possible. Now the cost of living especially housing means few can afford to give up work to care for family. This is yet another issue linked to the lack of affordable housing. Related to this is many people have had to move away from family for housing or work.

More social housing and better job opportunities in all parts of the country would help, but there's also the issue that many people have nursing needs beyond capability of their family. They need properly trained professionals. However definitely if there was better financial support for carers and affordable housing, I assume more people could care for family at home.

I understand perfectly that we're taxed more than ever as government provison shrinks.

YABU.

The UK has far less provision in many areas now than it used to - national school meals policy dates back to pre-World War 1

School food provision first became mandatory in 1906, when the British Parliament passed the Education Provision of Meals Act, which gave Local Education Authorities (LEAs) the role of providing free meals to schoolchildren in primary schools. https://foodmatterslive.com/article/the-history-of-free-school-meals-in-the-uk-and-the-changes-needed/

The welfare state, state education, the NHS, pensions - these are all amazing, liberating things that the state should provide.

Yes the state should teach kids how to brush their teeth, and provide meals. It is part of building a strong nation. We need to get back to the good old days.

Yep or expect the gp to write a letter…..

and if it’s refused….’my mental health…..’

or ‘be kind’ aimed at women!

no personal responsibility ever!

I actually don't think schools should be brushing teeth, but I don't think the people who suggest this are necessarily the people who would need that involvement. They are people who brush their children's teeth, but are concerned by things in the news about dental health and so suggest school involvement. I'm not saying they're right, just that I don't think all the suggestions come from a place of "well I can't be arsed, schools should do it" but more "some other people can't be arsed, their children suffer, maybe schools could help because that's where children are 5 days a week" iyswim.