To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

[FaeryRing]

It seems like there is nothing the state shouldn’t be responsible for any more! Feeding your kids, getting them to school, hiring ‘behaviour specialists’ for every classroom because parents don’t want to discipline their own children, giving you money towards virtually anything you ask for because it’s not fair you have to pay for anything yourself.. I find it absolutely wild and don’t think it’s at all realistic or representative of what most adults believe?

People should be discouraged from
having children if they can’t do basic shit like brush their teeth and potty train them. School only runs for 2/3 of the year so what happens for the rest of it?

It did the opposite of shrink over the pandemic. Many were demanding it, on here too. Of course you’ll see it in taxes.

I own a nursery. Free milk is still provided and has been for the past 20 years. As far as I understand it, fruit is also provided in primary schools, but not nurseries.

I think not being able to brush your children’s teeth is a bar so low it’s not sustainable

My statement would have been equally as true in 2019.

Who will pay for all your ‘free’ stuff though?

Truer now. Did you expect the spending at the time?

Were there fewer middle management / executive jobs paid at 3 or 4 times the median salary in the 70s and 80s? I feel there were fewer, but have no evidence.

Also MPs keep being caught taking the mick money wise - parliamentary expenses scandal, through to Covid Cronyism - it's hard to trust the state with our money under these circumstances.

You would think so, wouldn’t you? But even on this thread someone is suggesting teachers supervise tooth brushing. And so many children don’t have their teeth properly brushed.

No, but the question of where is money going held true.

We are wealthier than ever as a nation in terms of real terms gdp. Tax take is higher than ever.

How were previous governments magically able to do more than this one given those two facts?

You'd think so. It's a problem that solves itself- some kids have missing [front] teeth from some time in secondary school / early adulthood. Some just have really mouldy looking teeth.

'I remember reading in an old novel, set in the 40s or early 50s, about children from poor families being sent to school despite being unwell, ‘because at least they’d get their milk’.

Now they're sent to school unwell as it's in their (and the people they spread it to) best interests apparently. 🙃

I have way too many real life stories of entitled cf parents and non parent adults who live the life of the entitled.
Our social services funding began to help those people who were truly living in dire straits. Illness, work injuries, death of main breadwinner etc. and it is absolutely right that it is there now for people, families and children who need it. My DGF back in 1920s campaigned and fought for sick pay especially after work related injuries, he was a miner. Back then there was literally nothing, no money if your DH was killed in an accident, or support. Obviously things have moved on a lot since then, thank God but the system that was set up to help the most vulnerable is being abused.
I know too many people who know and milk the system. It breaks my heart and makes me mad in equal measure.
And don’t get me started on cf social system milkers who talk about ‘getting paid’ and those who say teachers, police, nurses etc are ‘public servants’
“So I’m the public and you’re my servant!” I have heard this too 😤
It’s a big mess and my DGF will be turning in his grave 😔

I believe It's too late by school. Serious interventions need to start at birth.

I don’t think it’s magic. One was deferring the billions in off gov PFI which we’re still paying for. And all the support through out the pandemic and topping up bank accounts recently

The other factor is aging population which is hitting us harder than any time before, so deferring that taxpayer debt was madness

Plus we have very high state dependency, any higher and I think it’ll be very hard for the remaining tax contributors

The level of entitlement in this country is unbelievable. People think they ‘deserve’ everything, that they are ‘entitled’ to everything. Makes me feel sick actually. Labour will only encourage this way of thinking of course.

Bloody well done Mrs Scott.

What if the imaginary person in the example doesn't have kids, has never claimed UC or other benefits, will never claim a state pension but still contributes to all of those pots as a tax payer? Where's the line for "their fair share" in that instance? Do they get more health care because they are taking less of other resources? And why are you focussed only on health care when you could apply that same principle of "more than their fair share" to any number of situations?

Wouldn't dream about caring for or living with my abusive (silent generation) parents, although in another country.
Let "someone else" do that.

That’s right. But of course a lot of the people who take the most give the least. People don’t pay tax if they earn under £12k, if they have a job at all. State benefits are so generous often there’s ‘no point’ in working at all. How can that be right?

As always most tax is paid by the higher rate tax payers. When they’ve had enough, who is going to pay the taxes to fund everything?

It would never really be in the interests of the government to actually restrict the undeserving from getting health care because once we stop treating junkies and people are still scratching their heads wondering where their new hip is and the game will be up.

Currently you can blame the junkie, and hate them accordingly, rather than looking at what the actual problem is.

I literally said in my post ' I support a large state with higher taxes to support this'. So tax payers would. All families would benefit directly as it would be universal provision and everyone one benefit indirectly by having a more equal society with less deprivation.

What game is up?

The projection of hip replacements is eye watering, look at 2030 projections and for knees too

The NHS didn’t start with that in place or all the level of other elderly complex care

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/05/starmer-wants-supervised-toothbrushing-in-englands-primary-schools?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17154381503350&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsociety%2F2023%2Foct%2F05%2Fstarmer-wants-supervised-toothbrushing-in-englands-primary-schools

For the tooth brushing frothers.

This initiative is a suggestion by a political party leader to counteract the dire state of dental health care provision first and foremost, not the result of "lazy parent " demands.

Always good to be fully informed before you start a debate I find.

But that’s the issue. Lots of people aren’t tax payers. Or if they are they take out plenty and don’t end up net contributing. And I’m sure there’s a pretty big overlap between those not paying tax and those expecting teachers to potty train their kids.