Not coping with adult child being back home

[movienights]

Ds has moved back home after 3 years living with his ex.
He's 25 and he does absolutely nothing around the house or garden, if he's asked to do something he'll do such a poor job that it will need doing again, he can't wash up properly and leaves frying pans and pots grease stained and dirty so dh or I have now said leave the washing up so we can do it properly, the washing up he accumulates is only his packed lunch he cooks salmon or chops to take and rice or potatoes late at night so we have to wake up and clean up.
I cook his main meal with the family which I'm happy to do as I would anyway and one more portion is nothing.
He has all his washing done for him because he's so heavy handed with the buttons and broke the last machine, he peels his clothes off and puts them in the laundry basket inside out, even socks, he treads down so hard on the pedal bin we're on about our 3rd this year, he's broken the front and back door and his bedroom door just by being heavy handed yanking the handle, he leaves the bathroom soaked through every day and his towel on the floor because no amount of asking him to open window sinks in, he leaves black marks all over the house from his dirty hands, (he works in a filthy factory) it cleans off but is extra work, he makes so much mess and work for me and does nothing, or puts such little effort into reluctantly doing what's asked that I have to do it again anyway.
He has no life outside of work, no friends and no hobbies never leaves the house which he seems happy with, he works the same hours as us so is in his room all night every night a thin wall away so our sex life has nose dived.

He's now informed us he's going to go back to college and then do an apprenticeship after, which I admire anyone who wants to better themselves but this just screams I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
He lies to us constantly, he's also very unsociable and keeps his life very private so even having a conversation or exchanging pleasantries is awkward because he doesn't like questions so even how was your day is a one word answer so not to give anything away.
I make allowances for him because he is possibly autistic or has ADHD but refuses to get assessed as he feels he's just the way he is and doesn't want a diagnosis or medication.

I am I constantly arguing with dh about something else he's done because dh moans to me as ds won't be spoken to about anything, it's like living with a teenager who just storms off at the first sign of criticism or he'll shout and argue back and then nothing changes except the atmosphere.

I feel completely snowed under with the situation, our marriage is at breaking point and there's nothing I can do about it because he's likely going to be here for the foreseeable future if not forever.

He seems to be very, very angry and taking his anger out on you.

Broken door handles, peddle bins, washing machines ... there is no excuse for that.

Refusing to clean until you get exasperated - there is no excuse for that.

You being a doormat - there is no excuse for YOUR behaviour!!!!

Awww, but I love him. Awww, but I'm happy to do this and that for him, it's no trouble. Aww! He has his washing "done for him" because he's heavy handed. You are an enabler to his trouble-making behaviour.

Damn well make him wash his clothes in the bath tub if he breaks the washing machine.

Set down ground rules.

First of all - ANYTHING he breaks, he pays for.

Do not cook for him. Do not do his laundry. (Use a broken pedal bin as his personal laundry basket for him to sort out his own clothes.)

Give him one set of cheap cooking utensils. If he doesn't clean them - his problem. Keep your cooking utensiles separate.

Do not believe he's going back to college - he will not be able to afford it. We all get one free opportunity in life called school. And if you can't get qualifications there, it will cost you thousands to start learning again as an adult.

Focus on what apprenticeship he wants - if he has some basic qualifications, he can probably get one.

Tell him he needs to move out - because he is destructive and hostile in the home.

Tell him he also needs to move out and find a friend to "live on a sofa" because that qualifies him for housing support from your local council.

Also look into charities like The Connection.

But you need to sit down with him and state clearly this living arrangement is not working out. Priority is moving out and claiming local Council support as homeless.

Then once he's out the house, invite him for a weekend lunch once a week to discuss how his local Council application for housing is going and what kind of apprenticehip he wants. And maybe he should go do some construction work to take his anger out with physical labour.

Write him a list of everything that is causing you pain. If he doesn't sort at least half of it in a month then tell him to find another place to live.

Take him to have a look at some rented rooms with all bills included. You can get nice ones in nice areas with on suite shower and toilet and a small kitchen area so he doesn't annoy other people. The deposit for a rented room is quite cheap and its usually a months rent in advance. Once you find one he likes or you like and think is suitable he could move in pretty quick . He could still pop in for his tea at yours as like you say you don't mind doing him some tea.

Oh and one last thing. With you saying he may be autistic. He sounds like he may have dyspraxia from what you have written about how clumsy he is. Dyspraxia can run along side autism. People with those conditions can struggle with the washing up and cleaning in general. He may also be forgetful and need telling all the time. It can be part of his disabilities.. so doing what I suggested in my other comment will help you both.

I wouldn’t put up with this behaviour from my 11 & 12 yo ds (who are both autistic and the youngest also has ADHD). Doing chores, like washing up, badly is the oldest trick in the book. If I do it badly I won’t have to do it again. If he’s behaving like a teenager then treat him like one, next time he doesn’t wash up properly call him back and get him to go it again.

You have the power in this situation.
Refuse to tolerate his behaviour. He either acts like a competent person or he will have to move out.

You’re assuming he has a disability based on one single post on the internet. Now unless you have some kind of revolutionary advanced medical training, you’re in no position to make that call. It’s takes medical experts with years of training and sometimes several, IN PERSON assessments. Utterly ridiculous to ‘diagnose’ him over mumsnet.

My DS told me after moving out that he'd do things badly so that I wouldn't ask him again.
So the washing up every evening was his task. He'd do it badly, but I didn't let him off doing it. I'd sneak into the kitchen and rewash my mug if he'd left it less than spotless.

When first married DS now enjoys doing the washing up he says and is glad I made him do it!

Don't let your DS off tasks OP. He may well learn more of you get him doing chores regardless.

OP this is the bed you and your husband made in your choices to parent him. You clearly pander to him and there’s no consequences for his behaviour. If you want things to change, you have to change first.

As stated try to work with him to analyse the issues, literally watch him wash his hands or wash up to see the issue. I do that even though my son has a diagnosis to help my son make the next step. So yesterday I sent him to dog walk, followed from behind and noticed he struggled at certain points when he encountered people also he was not quick to get rid of the poo bag. So I will work on that . When my son washes up he struggles with organising the stuff on the draining board or putting too much soap on things and making them slippy…again it’s useful to see exactly what the issue is,

If it might be dyspraxia (actually now called motor coordination disorder under the DSM5 ) it takes not that much money to get a diagnosis. You can self refer to OT or pay for an OT to examine as an expert….which will be a few hundred pounds. Possibly ASD can combined with other issues like some extensive Venn diagram. So it’s connected to MCD and SLI even some mental illnesses. His executive functioning can be checked via an Ed Psych but you might have to go private but it could lead to extra time in exams. At some point either he agrees to testing or he has to accept there is no excuse for it.

I would want to be clear on whether he just can’t be bothered or is genuinely disabled.

Start billing him for breakages, services etc and credit for chores done well. He’ll improve or move out 😉

Some autistic people can have dyspraxia that runs along side autism and something clean to them may not be clean to you. It may explain why he breaks things by accident. My daughter has both and she can't ring out a dish cloth or hold a knife and folk properly cos of dexterity issues. She requires help with cleaning. It says nothing about if he wears glasses tbh or if he needs them or has been eye tested. My daughter literally cant see little specks of food or bits on carpets and she has the correct perscription.
He needs his own place by the sounds of it. A rented room that has an on suite can come with a cleaner too and that will help him.

If he has a disability that's not a bed made for themselves, they potentially have a disabled grown child who refuses to get an assessment.
I have 4 adult children and 1 is just like op's son and my 3 nt adults are all successful and capable despite having the same upbringing.
Parents should not be blamed for the behaviour of nd children or adults.
It's bloody hard work living with an autistic child that will probably never be able to support themselves and when they're disrespectful on top of that it can become a very tiring and thankless task but yes let's point the finger at the people who did their best for them because it clearly wasn't enough.

@movienights

It's been 5 days since you last replied, are you coming back to this thread with your thoughts / feelings / actions ?

as you have lots of replies.

It’s fantastic you have offered him space but you are enabling his behaviour and it’s unacceptable.

any wonder his marriage didn’t work out if that is his standard conduct.

Honestly, I would just tell him to leave.

Sounds very sensible advice.

In this financial climate there are many 25 year olds still living at home. After uni many cannot afford to rent on their salaries, but some do revert to being a child when they come home and think they are in a hotel with services provided. DS could be depressed from splitting up with his girlfriend or life in general so try gently and slowly to get to the bottom of it. He gets angry because he is hurting and putting on a front. People saying just chuck him out dont have a clue. It's hard for you but maybe go speak to a specialist to give you some ideas of how to get through to him. When you have tried everything and if nothing works then kick him out but if you don't as a mother you will always have feelings of guilt and what's ifs. Alot of the answers on here have not factored in any mental issues or as you have said he could be autistic etc.

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Not coping with adult child being back home
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OldPerson · 15/05/2024 21:27

He seems to be very, very angry and taking his anger out on you.

Broken door handles, peddle bins, washing machines ... there is no excuse for that.

Refusing to clean until you get exasperated - there is no excuse for that.

You being a doormat - there is no excuse for YOUR behaviour!!!!

Awww, but I love him. Awww, but I'm happy to do this and that for him, it's no trouble. Aww! He has his washing "done for him" because he's heavy handed. You are an enabler to his trouble-making behaviour.

Damn well make him wash his clothes in the bath tub if he breaks the washing machine.

Set down ground rules.

First of all - ANYTHING he breaks, he pays for.

Do not cook for him. Do not do his laundry. (Use a broken pedal bin as his personal laundry basket for him to sort out his own clothes.)

Give him one set of cheap cooking utensils. If he doesn't clean them - his problem. Keep your cooking utensiles separate.

Do not believe he's going back to college - he will not be able to afford it. We all get one free opportunity in life called school. And if you can't get qualifications there, it will cost you thousands to start learning again as an adult.

Focus on what apprenticeship he wants - if he has some basic qualifications, he can probably get one.

Tell him he needs to move out - because he is destructive and hostile in the home.

Tell him he also needs to move out and find a friend to "live on a sofa" because that qualifies him for housing support from your local council.

Also look into charities like The Connection.

But you need to sit down with him and state clearly this living arrangement is not working out. Priority is moving out and claiming local Council support as homeless.

Then once he's out the house, invite him for a weekend lunch once a week to discuss how his local Council application for housing is going and what kind of apprenticehip he wants. And maybe he should go do some construction work to take his anger out with physical labour.

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lemming40 · 15/05/2024 22:12

Write him a list of everything that is causing you pain. If he doesn't sort at least half of it in a month then tell him to find another place to live.

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Julie2024 · 16/05/2024 05:56

Take him to have a look at some rented rooms with all bills included. You can get nice ones in nice areas with on suite shower and toilet and a small kitchen area so he doesn't annoy other people. The deposit for a rented room is quite cheap and its usually a months rent in advance. Once you find one he likes or you like and think is suitable he could move in pretty quick . He could still pop in for his tea at yours as like you say you don't mind doing him some tea.

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Julie2024 · 16/05/2024 06:12

Oh and one last thing. With you saying he may be autistic. He sounds like he may have dyspraxia from what you have written about how clumsy he is. Dyspraxia can run along side autism. People with those conditions can struggle with the washing up and cleaning in general. He may also be forgetful and need telling all the time. It can be part of his disabilities.. so doing what I suggested in my other comment will help you both.

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jo19 · 16/05/2024 07:31

I wouldn’t put up with this behaviour from my 11 & 12 yo ds (who are both autistic and the youngest also has ADHD). Doing chores, like washing up, badly is the oldest trick in the book. If I do it badly I won’t have to do it again. If he’s behaving like a teenager then treat him like one, next time he doesn’t wash up properly call him back and get him to go it again.

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Toptops · 16/05/2024 08:50

You have the power in this situation.
Refuse to tolerate his behaviour. He either acts like a competent person or he will have to move out.

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Naunet · 16/05/2024 08:56

flipflopsalready · 12/05/2024 08:37

Why does any disability need to be given a medical diagnosis when you can just be horrible because they're not like you?

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You’re assuming he has a disability based on one single post on the internet. Now unless you have some kind of revolutionary advanced medical training, you’re in no position to make that call. It’s takes medical experts with years of training and sometimes several, IN PERSON assessments. Utterly ridiculous to ‘diagnose’ him over mumsnet.

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BlueFlowers5 · 16/05/2024 08:58

My DS told me after moving out that he'd do things badly so that I wouldn't ask him again.
So the washing up every evening was his task. He'd do it badly, but I didn't let him off doing it. I'd sneak into the kitchen and rewash my mug if he'd left it less than spotless.

When first married DS now enjoys doing the washing up he says and is glad I made him do it!

Don't let your DS off tasks OP. He may well learn more of you get him doing chores regardless.

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Naunet · 16/05/2024 09:00

OP this is the bed you and your husband made in your choices to parent him. You clearly pander to him and there’s no consequences for his behaviour. If you want things to change, you have to change first.

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Noras · 16/05/2024 09:57

As stated try to work with him to analyse the issues, literally watch him wash his hands or wash up to see the issue. I do that even though my son has a diagnosis to help my son make the next step. So yesterday I sent him to dog walk, followed from behind and noticed he struggled at certain points when he encountered people also he was not quick to get rid of the poo bag. So I will work on that . When my son washes up he struggles with organising the stuff on the draining board or putting too much soap on things and making them slippy…again it’s useful to see exactly what the issue is,

If it might be dyspraxia (actually now called motor coordination disorder under the DSM5 ) it takes not that much money to get a diagnosis. You can self refer to OT or pay for an OT to examine as an expert….which will be a few hundred pounds. Possibly ASD can combined with other issues like some extensive Venn diagram. So it’s connected to MCD and SLI even some mental illnesses. His executive functioning can be checked via an Ed Psych but you might have to go private but it could lead to extra time in exams. At some point either he agrees to testing or he has to accept there is no excuse for it.

I would want to be clear on whether he just can’t be bothered or is genuinely disabled.

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LindaMo2 · 16/05/2024 10:07

Start billing him for breakages, services etc and credit for chores done well. He’ll improve or move out 😉

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Julie2024 · 16/05/2024 11:12

Some autistic people can have dyspraxia that runs along side autism and something clean to them may not be clean to you. It may explain why he breaks things by accident. My daughter has both and she can't ring out a dish cloth or hold a knife and folk properly cos of dexterity issues. She requires help with cleaning. It says nothing about if he wears glasses tbh or if he needs them or has been eye tested. My daughter literally cant see little specks of food or bits on carpets and she has the correct perscription.
He needs his own place by the sounds of it. A rented room that has an on suite can come with a cleaner too and that will help him.

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starlingscott · 16/05/2024 17:29

Naunet · 16/05/2024 09:00

OP this is the bed you and your husband made in your choices to parent him. You clearly pander to him and there’s no consequences for his behaviour. If you want things to change, you have to change first.

If he has a disability that's not a bed made for themselves, they potentially have a disabled grown child who refuses to get an assessment.
I have 4 adult children and 1 is just like op's son and my 3 nt adults are all successful and capable despite having the same upbringing.
Parents should not be blamed for the behaviour of nd children or adults.
It's bloody hard work living with an autistic child that will probably never be able to support themselves and when they're disrespectful on top of that it can become a very tiring and thankless task but yes let's point the finger at the people who did their best for them because it clearly wasn't enough.

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OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 16/05/2024 17:34

@movienights

It's been 5 days since you last replied, are you coming back to this thread with your thoughts / feelings / actions ?

as you have lots of replies.

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changeme4this · 16/05/2024 19:48

It’s fantastic you have offered him space but you are enabling his behaviour and it’s unacceptable.

any wonder his marriage didn’t work out if that is his standard conduct.

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Shiveringinthecountry · 16/05/2024 20:34

Honestly, I would just tell him to leave.

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Firethehorse · Yesterday 07:43

Sounds very sensible advice.

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Odin2018 · Today 06:20

SingingSands · 10/05/2024 12:58

Encourage him to move out to a room in a shared house. He can meet new people and hopefully be a bit more responsible for himself.
In this financial climate there are many 25 year olds still living at home. After uni many cannot afford to rent on their salaries, but some do revert to being a child when they come home and think they are in a hotel with services provided. DS could be depressed from splitting up with his girlfriend or life in general so try gently and slowly to get to the bottom of it. He gets angry because he is hurting and putting on a front. People saying just chuck him out dont have a clue. It's hard for you but maybe go speak to a specialist to give you some ideas of how to get through to him. When you have tried everything and if nothing works then kick him out but if you don't as a mother you will always have feelings of guilt and what's ifs. Alot of the answers on here have not factored in any mental issues or as you have said he could be autistic etc.

Just have sex anyway, you're making it all too comfortable for him.
If he hears you having sex he might start going out, might move out.
You are tiptoeing and doing everything for him.
It's normal for a married couple to have sex, if he doesn't like it, he can leave.
I've got a brother who always did a shit job and everything so he was never asked to do it again. It's lazy and you shouldn't be putting up with it.

This post is an excuse for a rant unless you are prepared to do something about it. I'd say longterm you'd actually be doing him a kindness by getting him to move out. At 25 the default reaction to a break up shouldnt be staying with parents for an indefinite amount of time.

A conversation needs to be had here about him moving on and I'd be inclined to point out that his behaviour makes him incredibly difficult to live with. If that is somewhat linked to sen then he should be encouraged to get a diagnosis and or medication or coping strategies to help because you are both no longer his fall back option. You have to make this crystal clear. I would also make it clear that his behaviour is affecting your relationship because he sounds blissfully unaware. Be blunt, be honest and best of luck op. You clearly love him but whilst he will always be your child, he's now an adult and martyring yourself or your relationship for him shouldn't be an option.

Well I said I wasn't going to be doing his washing any more so I explained how to use the washing machine and showed him the tablets and fabric conditioner and I popped out this morning and he's put a wash on the longest cycle with no washing tablet in and when I said I showed you how to do it he shouted oh fine turn it off ruin my clothes then I don't care anymore you do it and stormed off and now I need to wash my work clothes.
I also said he needed to wash up and showed him how to do it while he sarcastically said I do know mum so he's taken to only cooking his lunch once we've gone to bed and just rinses it under the tap and leaves it greasy on the draining board.
I complained about the shower and his reluctance to open the window which we called out open the window after he went in and he called back it's open, dh looked outside and confirmed window was closed so we tried to speak to him when he came out and he walked off not listening and now he gets up early before anyone else so he can a shower in peace.
I didn't cook last night as dh and I ate out so I told him what we had in and gave him the options of things he could cook for himself and he decided to go without any dinner.

I've also sent him a text because I'm unable to get anything from him and he didn't respond but when I saw him he said I'm not going to have texts like that.
Dh has put the washing machine on the right setting and added detergent and it's finished but there's a pen in there and either tissue or paper that was in his pocket and it's made everything fluffy, all he can say is well I didn't know it was in there.
It's hopeless, he can't be bothered with it and just walks off.
I was in the garden pulling some weeds and ivy he came out to ask me something grabs some ivy from the fence and yanks it pulling part of the fence down before tutting and saying everything I touch goes wrong.
This is why everything is done for him because we want a nice home.

“I’m not going to be having texts like that.”

To his Mother!

He can fuck right off into a bedsit.

I took the Micky out of you earlier in the thread but his attitude does stink.