Not coping with adult child being back home

[movienights]

Ds has moved back home after 3 years living with his ex.
He's 25 and he does absolutely nothing around the house or garden, if he's asked to do something he'll do such a poor job that it will need doing again, he can't wash up properly and leaves frying pans and pots grease stained and dirty so dh or I have now said leave the washing up so we can do it properly, the washing up he accumulates is only his packed lunch he cooks salmon or chops to take and rice or potatoes late at night so we have to wake up and clean up.
I cook his main meal with the family which I'm happy to do as I would anyway and one more portion is nothing.
He has all his washing done for him because he's so heavy handed with the buttons and broke the last machine, he peels his clothes off and puts them in the laundry basket inside out, even socks, he treads down so hard on the pedal bin we're on about our 3rd this year, he's broken the front and back door and his bedroom door just by being heavy handed yanking the handle, he leaves the bathroom soaked through every day and his towel on the floor because no amount of asking him to open window sinks in, he leaves black marks all over the house from his dirty hands, (he works in a filthy factory) it cleans off but is extra work, he makes so much mess and work for me and does nothing, or puts such little effort into reluctantly doing what's asked that I have to do it again anyway.
He has no life outside of work, no friends and no hobbies never leaves the house which he seems happy with, he works the same hours as us so is in his room all night every night a thin wall away so our sex life has nose dived.

He's now informed us he's going to go back to college and then do an apprenticeship after, which I admire anyone who wants to better themselves but this just screams I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
He lies to us constantly, he's also very unsociable and keeps his life very private so even having a conversation or exchanging pleasantries is awkward because he doesn't like questions so even how was your day is a one word answer so not to give anything away.
I make allowances for him because he is possibly autistic or has ADHD but refuses to get assessed as he feels he's just the way he is and doesn't want a diagnosis or medication.

I am I constantly arguing with dh about something else he's done because dh moans to me as ds won't be spoken to about anything, it's like living with a teenager who just storms off at the first sign of criticism or he'll shout and argue back and then nothing changes except the atmosphere.

I feel completely snowed under with the situation, our marriage is at breaking point and there's nothing I can do about it because he's likely going to be here for the foreseeable future if not forever.

OK - Let’s assume he is ASD what would my advice be.

I think that lines of communication need to be opened so that the son believes that the OP is on his team.So any desire to get him not to break something or to do something more thoroughly is not perceived as a criticism but as someone who is trying to help him. The whole relationship needs a 360 turn about.

A parent of a disabled child looks at thing differently. You tend to do quite a lot of detailed analysis and problem solving.

So I would find a time to talk to him and say ‘Look I realise that things have been hard for you but we are on the same team so let’s work together. Clearly you are finding some things a struggle but equally you don’t want to get help/ support. I can understand that but shall we work together to make this house work better. …’

So hand washing - he comes in and you ask him to show you how he does it. Does he use the right products for grease removal. Does he forget to check his hands to make sure they are really clean? After he washes them could he then use wipes to make sure that are really clean - I think that you can buy these special wipes that are effective.

Look I know you struggle with the washing machine so shall we look at that together and see if we can make it work? Again watch how he does it without ciriticm and make suggestions - again it’s all in the tone .

If ND I suspect these issues might be caused by ADHD impetuousness so at these point I would introduce memory aids eg post it notes.

Also a To do list on phone he looks at daily

An agreement of chores that he can manage without breaking things - just redirect his ability to contribute to other tasks eg dusting or cleaning the kitchen floor. This can be on his to do list .

I would do a one week’s assessment in the kitchen to work out if there are handling/ OT issues there. There are gadgets and aids that can be bought eg specific chopping boards etc.

If it’s ASD they are resistant to going out but once out can enjoy it - I have already suggested Drama but any interest he has can get him out eg sailing clubs or running clubs etc. He needs to be pushed out as much as possible.

The main thing is to spend time with him and get him to understand that you are on team him. Analyse what % of your sentences are a criticism and what % are supportive.

Once a decent relationship was restored and he now asks for support and help then would I discuss why an assessment might be useful from his point of view eg access to DAS support if a student, extra time in exams and assessments and maybe PIP.

Why does poor behaviour need to be given a medical diagnosis? Can’t we just call him a slob?

Why does any disability need to be given a medical diagnosis when you can just be horrible because they're not like you?

Why does ND have to be used as a excuse not to be able to learn to do stuff.

I work with an autistic college, yes she struggles with some things quite rightly. But she is capable of living on her own, cooking, doing her washing, sorting most of her life out herself (she does need a bit of help sometimes). I do feel we do a lot of young people a disservice by just assuming they can't do these things if ND. They may need a bit of extra help learning to do them but doesn't mean they can't do it.

I think that maybe this person has not had the input to get them to the level to do these things- presupposing they are ND which is not proven.

Also ASD etc have varying impacts on capability.
I can point to someone with ASD who is a 2:1 flight risk and DOL and someone who is working as a professional. It cant be generalised.

However I agree that pushing and encouraging is necessary. I have a video of my daughter’s birthday when aged about 11 and me pleading for an hour to get DS out to an attraction. It’s actually sad to watch and the impact on my daughter was huge - as was my guilt. My DS was hyper focused on making a Lego titanic sink under a blue duvet which he did repeatedly 100’s of time. Had we continued like that I would jave been imprisoned and some parents effectively are under house arrest in effect.

My son has had a great day today and he was so pleased as I said to him ‘wow if this carries on I can sign off as your carer.’ His face was so happy. So he’s now even more enthused to do more and try more. That has put him into a positive mind set for next weeks life skills as he can see his progress.

So saying they do reach brick walls with things and for us bus travel in a crowded city remains an issue with a 1:1 or ( certainly not alone as yet( - it’s chancy if he will get on. He is not even trying to make that type of journey alone but only doing that in a small town with a quiet bus as part of life skills. But positive encouragement hopefully will help and gentle acclimatisation to reduce anxiety.

I do think that people should walk in people’s shoes to understand. Before he was born I had no idea how terrifying a bush bordering onto a pavement could be or a car parked onto a pavement. I suppose the similar analogy is having a fear of heights - it’s pretty hard to get over. .. but walking down a pavement is a necessity of life- thank god he got over that although it can resurface when more angst. It’s really hard for people to have any idea unless you live with it.

Trust me - my son has an unconditional place at university and it makes no sense for him to be at life skills if not hugely necessary.

So to the OP

lines of communication
positive reenforcement
modelling etc

If you've met one ND person you've met one ND person.
I'll take your ableist attitude as ignorance, which is on you.

So now you know why his relationship broke down she got sick of him as you are too. However it’s your literal job as a parent to teach him how to adult. So start teaching him how to do things properly. Start making him pay for breaking things, you bet he’ll be more careful once he’s had to replace several things.
Stop babying him and doing everything for him. He’s a grown ass adult and he’s never going to be able to live independently if he’s constantly treated like a man child. No self respecting woman is going to put up with that

Was he like this before he left home at age 22?

I work with one ND person, I've met many ND people/children and am ND myself. If you don't help teach people how to cope with real world issues they never will be able to. And that kind of goes for anyone.

If he can hold down a job then although yes he may find it difficult, he should be able to do other everyday things. Even if he sometimes needs some help. Just assuming people can't because they are ND doesn't actually help them cope with life does it.

Yes some people will need assisted living but op's Son certainly doesn't sound like the sort of person that would apply to.

Autistic- why wasn't he dx in school? My x was like this and def was Autistic just like our son is. Its far more than just being lazy the fact he's holding a job is a great achievement and it would account for his relationship issues also. I don't know the answer but I guess he's struggling a lot. All you can do is support him - it takes a lot more effort to huff and puff, moan with hubby than just wash up I'm sure.

Give him a set of clear rules, in writing if you need to, and tell him he’s got six weeks for things to change out he’s out on his ear.

Right so the problem is you’re tip toe-ing round him, maybe if you had loud sex and not hold back he’ll find somewhere pretty damn sharpish 😂 I’m serious though, you’re doing EVERYTHING for him, repairing shit he breaks, cleaning up after him and avoiding sex so he’s not offended!! MAKE him repeatedly go back til the jobs done right, I’ve done this with all my kids and still have to do with my adult kids too. They do it on purpose to avoid been asked again and you done exactly what he wanted!! Tell him you’ll help him find a place, he’s working so he’s earning, I was gonna suggest sharing accommodation but he’d drive anyone insane so it’d never work, he needs to live alone in his own pit of shit for a reality check. His poor ex if that’s what she’d to put up with 😳 I’m afraid that’s on you though, it was yours and hubbys job to whip him into shape. Surely he’s been like this before he moved out so you knew anyway how terrible he was to live with? When you were explaining the things he done the autism/adhd came into my head, it’s a possibility but think back on how he used to be, was he always like this? If he is diagnosed he doesn’t have to medicate but he can get help to teach him how to control things he does and ultimately be a better person to live with.

Now you know why his relationship failed because I wouldn't put up with that either he's an ADULT not a child give him the option of sorting himself out or he finds somewhere else to live

Sounds like your son may also have ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) if he shuts down when asked questions. People with ADHD also often have extreme difficulty with criticism of any form. Have a good read about both, and strategies for speaking / questioning him to help reduce the negative reaction you receive. this should hopefully help you have a more comprehensive conversation.

then - encourage him to get diagnosed- you’ll need to pay privately to get it in the next 3 years. For autism and adhd you’re looking at 1.5-3k unfortunately.

they do not just give medication - they offer coaching on coping strategies and help educate people re how their brain works.

give supportive and loving - but firm - boundaries. You love him. You want him around. But he’s not showing you any respect with his behaviour.

Then - this is what I need to see happen if you’re going to continue living here. If this doesn’t happen within X weeks / if you don’t feel like you are Comfortable with this then that’s fine. No hard feelings, you’ve got X time to find somewhere new to live. We’re happy to support you find somewhere/ move etc.

… … … you are the parent!!!!!

i mean, sounds like he’s a real winner, glad his partner got out.

you’ve gotta lay down the law! Or tell him to get out! He’s not 6! An adult living at home should be grateful and making life easier rather than worse!

and come on! He’s breaking things because he’s too rough!! That’s unacceptable!

if you can’t handle him get him out! NOW!

if you can, then it’s time to parent him and make him into a good man so he can keep a relationship - you sent this person out into the world!!!

he can’t clean up, so laundry, and you’re walking up to clean after him! This is allll so solidly WTF.

i mean you do what you can as a parent, but this isn’t worth your marriage! Do you have daughters in the house??!? Are you shopping them that this is ok?!? Setting them up for a life of abuse?!?

He is 25! Tell him he needs to move out soon, help him look for bedsits. He can't carry on living with you like this. We would all love to move back home and absolve all responsibilities, but we don't past 21. Adults have to work or study part time around their job.

Give him two weeks notice to find a place. He can be a lodger elsewhere. I would not put up with this - I would be crystal clear to about mu reasons too.

Ha i just have read this tread and here is a mother who has made an incompetent man child that this thread is giving out about 🤔😅
AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me | Mumsnet
Start making him do stuff if not get out - You shouldnt have let him leave the dishes - you should have made him go back and wash again - you not helping him at all

Why can't you ask him to leave? He should be in a houseshare or bedsit. If you split up from your DH, he'll have to leave anyway as you won't get to keep the house.

Are you on the right thread?

He sounds depressed 😔

But on the other hand everyone goes through heartbreak he needs to get out there and find some friends

He needs to move out

But if he won't then you need to write him a list sticker it on his bedroom door if things he needs to do because if he is adhd and no one has helped him write lists being 25 is irrelevant show him how to write it and then he needs to write his own and actually do the tasks

And what about the father?

Well we have no mention of the father in OP's post, what he has to say about it - Has the father tried to over rule her but she wont let him ? Or does she do everything for him too ? If so even worse

But he has a father that should teaching his son skills and housework, and how to adult. The onus is not all on op! How bloody misogynistic to be blaming op as the mother.

Have loud sex, he will be out of there!

Also call him out on everything he dose, if he sulks or argues remind him it’s your house your rules if he dosnt like it leave, that includes being civil to you.