Not coping with adult child being back home

[movienights]

Ds has moved back home after 3 years living with his ex.
He's 25 and he does absolutely nothing around the house or garden, if he's asked to do something he'll do such a poor job that it will need doing again, he can't wash up properly and leaves frying pans and pots grease stained and dirty so dh or I have now said leave the washing up so we can do it properly, the washing up he accumulates is only his packed lunch he cooks salmon or chops to take and rice or potatoes late at night so we have to wake up and clean up.
I cook his main meal with the family which I'm happy to do as I would anyway and one more portion is nothing.
He has all his washing done for him because he's so heavy handed with the buttons and broke the last machine, he peels his clothes off and puts them in the laundry basket inside out, even socks, he treads down so hard on the pedal bin we're on about our 3rd this year, he's broken the front and back door and his bedroom door just by being heavy handed yanking the handle, he leaves the bathroom soaked through every day and his towel on the floor because no amount of asking him to open window sinks in, he leaves black marks all over the house from his dirty hands, (he works in a filthy factory) it cleans off but is extra work, he makes so much mess and work for me and does nothing, or puts such little effort into reluctantly doing what's asked that I have to do it again anyway.
He has no life outside of work, no friends and no hobbies never leaves the house which he seems happy with, he works the same hours as us so is in his room all night every night a thin wall away so our sex life has nose dived.

He's now informed us he's going to go back to college and then do an apprenticeship after, which I admire anyone who wants to better themselves but this just screams I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
He lies to us constantly, he's also very unsociable and keeps his life very private so even having a conversation or exchanging pleasantries is awkward because he doesn't like questions so even how was your day is a one word answer so not to give anything away.
I make allowances for him because he is possibly autistic or has ADHD but refuses to get assessed as he feels he's just the way he is and doesn't want a diagnosis or medication.

I am I constantly arguing with dh about something else he's done because dh moans to me as ds won't be spoken to about anything, it's like living with a teenager who just storms off at the first sign of criticism or he'll shout and argue back and then nothing changes except the atmosphere.

I feel completely snowed under with the situation, our marriage is at breaking point and there's nothing I can do about it because he's likely going to be here for the foreseeable future if not forever.

@Noras

To be clear. Autism is no longer classified as high or low functioning.

You are either autistic or you aren’t.

There is no autistic band 1 diagnosis. It’s ASD pure and simple.

Where the levels come in relates to support needs. However it’s noted that people may fluctuate between these levels and thus while they can be useful in broad terms, each person needs to be treated on an individual basis.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-are-the-three-levels-of-autism-260233

Ergo you can not transpose your experiences with your son onto other people. And you should take at face value OP’s assertion that there are likely underlying support needs without doubting, ridiculing and dismissing the issues she is facing.

As autistics and parents we have all been there and, personally, I do think it’s better to be supportive of others with the same condition, even if presentations and experiences differ.

@Noras And by the by you are excluding the fact that OP has stated ADHD which causes issues with prioritisation, task management etc and that many autistics have sensory issues washing up and so on… the fact that he is cooking late at night and has a somewhat restricted unusual lunch diet sounds typical.

Just to be clear here. I have asd/adhd… I alternate from having everything absolutely perfect, to it being a complete mess due to feeling overwhelmed and burnt out. I physically feel like I can’t wash up dishes due to sensory issues when I’m in that state. I imagine OP’s son if ND and holding down a full time job is exhausted.

I also often need help with escalators and crossing the road due to perceptual difficulties. Yet I have a first class degree.

I know another autistic who struggles with housework and making meals, but manages to run a successful app because it’s related to a special interest.

Stop saying that a ‘high functioning’ autistic should be able to wash up. It’s really annoying. Some can, some can’t, some vary in their capabilities.

There is a fifty percent chance he has a broken heart (whether ND or not), the end of a 3 year relationship will be hard to recover from, with loss of self esteem, loss of hope of happiness ever, especially with a hard dirty manual job everyday and coming home to a house where he will feel he isn't wanted. Very hard for parents too. Trying to open up some communication especially between DS and DH may be the way to break out of the cycle of anger and despair.

If you google ‘autism hand washing difficulties’ I think you’ll find there are plenty of resources as it is an issue for many.

You've created a monster. What a useless melt. Get rid

Sorry op but your DS has to leave your house. If you are living with parents after the age of 18, you have to be an absolutely excellent house guest. I can't understand any other attitude. Don't destroy your life in this way.

Agree.

How did you bring him up.
Why is he lazy and messy etc?
🙄no need to put up with it anyway.

His poor ex girlfriend… 3 years of this shit! I hope he at least paid her for all of the breakages that he must have caused.

While I sympathize with difficulty in getting a diagnosis, you should have read up on parenting children with the conditions that you think he has. I have a similar aged child and the internet and parenting books were available. Even if he is ND, you bear some responsibility of how he behaves.

You’ve kept him helpless by doing tasks that he finds difficult /doesn’t like doing. If he can’t do a task then it was your job to stand over him and teach him. If he can’t then you should have explored alternatives that he might be able to do eg load a dishwasher, use rubber gloves. I bet that his relationship failed because he expected his gf to do all of the cleaning etc and that future relationships are going to be full of arguments when partners resent his behaviour. If he’s annoying you and your h then he’ll be driving any romantic partner crazier because they don’t have
the biological patience that motherhood brings.

If he can’t wash up then tell him to pick up a meal deal for work. If he’s autistic he might need you to tell him that fish is often considered an antisocial lunch in the workplace and that he should consider doing a weekly shop for his lunches. Explain to him like he’s a younger child that if he wants to cook lunch for tomorrow then he needs to do it by say 8pm and set a phone alarm to remind him. (Phone alarms are invaluable for my nd teen)

Even if he’s dyspraxic, he needed training on being less heavy handed. I know it’s unfair that others don’t have to think about it but if he’s heavy handed enough to break doors then I can’t help but wonder if he physically hurt his gf too?

As he’s living under your roof, you have the power to insist on diagnosis if that will make you feel better.

He's an adult and needs to act like it. You and your husband need to set clear boundaries or he has to leave. End of story.

Ask him to leave

No, tell, indeed demand that he leaves.

Not in the context of an adult who has never been flagged via school and who somehow managed Tech Art DS and Science classes but not suddenly can’t wash his hands!

Did you and your dh raise him OP?

Why was he never taught to look after himself?

He's incompetent. It's possible he could learn at this late age of life but do you think he's motivated enough?

Well, I think I can see why he’s not living with his girlfriend anymore. He’s 25. He needs to leave.

Have you tried waking up early so you and your husband have some time alone?

It sounds like an awful situation OP, I think you need to give your son some firm house rules and if he doesn't like them he can leave

@Noras

I hate to keep having to state the obvious but yes.

I wasn’t flagged at school. I managed science and art classes. I have third level education.

I still have difficulties with washing and dressing due to sensory issues and transitions.

Things are picked up much better today than they were in the 00s and further back.

I don’t know why you aren’t getting this!

My jaw dropped reading this He's 25 not a sulky teenager!!
You must sort it out, before your marriage implodes.
Did he need support at school( This would have flagged potential SEN?
What was his behaviour like before he lived with ex?( I have a DS25)
Why have you not brought him up with chores and responsibilities( and basic hygiene)
I would tell him you're at the end of your tether and he either shapes up or ships out to a house share
Charge him for anything he breaks or pay for repair.
You need to be proactive not passive
Why aren't you furious? I bloody would be

Quite frankly because if it extreme ND the mother would be writing a lot more than the fact that her son seems incapable of getting oil of his hands and does not wash up plus has no friends.

Not one of things are criteria on a DSM 5 assessment for ASD ADHD or Motor issues.

They might be a symptom of them but not ticking the diagnostic box. There would be lots of other things she would mention which would tick the diagnostic boxes and I assume you must have said to get your diagnosis.

Lots of people are heavy handed or have no interest in going out etc. lots of people act like they for other reasons eg depression or just because they can’t be bothered or frankly are lazy and think that if they do the job badly they won’t get asked again. Who knows what is happening here? You don’t and the mother does not which is why there are diagnostics.

I’m not going to infer SPD or ASD from scant information.

Moreover if anything the employers would he raising issues or have awareness - he works in a dirty and most likely noisy factory. There should be some ASD triggers there! As part of a gold standard diagnosis (NHS) they look at other settings eg work or the gym etc

Im not saying it’s not but the OP has had every opportunity of giving more illustrations and even then the advice would be to engage with son and encourage him to wash up etc uses post it note reminders etc.

There is no magic help in this situation. He’s unlikely to want to be with pretty higher needs ASD people on a life skills course.

Even with a diagnosis she would not get any help o imagine from services as such. So rather than trying to make a point with me why not suggest to the Op what can be done to make her son do housework as there are no magical agencies that will resolve these for her even with a diagnosis.

So all it is are prompt cards, memory aids etc

Frankly if he wants a packed lunch she can stop buying the things he cooks and tell him to make a sandwich or buy a pasty from a nearby shop.

If my son refused to wash up I would refuse to cook for him - he is excused glass objects and larger items as he can’t handle them but he can wipe surfaces and tidy up

My son has broken parts of the hoover so I supervise and prompt or set him other tasks eg dust the cupboards

put a card by the sink with words ‘wash your hands’

She can refuse to wash his clothes unless he brings them down to the machine. I would watch him load the machine to understand what the issue was as using the correct force can he learnt or he can bring down everyone’s laundry instead and help that way. There are alternative for him to try.

he could be encouraged to join a Drama group.

there are ND groups set up in areas.

Close supervision would rapidly determine what is happening with house work eg my son extends the hose of the hoover as he can’t get the right force to push the brush and that bends it.

Even with marked ASD etc the OP’s son needs to try his best but as yet she has not ticked an actual diagnostic box.

He needs 3 months notice to move into a room in a houseshare. He can fund it by working, and save up for his college course.

I'd had enough at broke the washing machine? I've never heard the like!!

It sounds like he needs to learn a few things. It's great he's back home for a bit but he does need to work with you as an adult to keep the house in order. I'd be saying a condition of being there is that he has to be shown how to do things properly, and then do things properly. And save for his house deposit. Sit down together as a family, acknowledge that the living situation has changed and draw up an agreement of who does what, and when!

@Noras

It doesn’t need to be extreme ASD to be causing major problems for other people.

We aren’t in the middle of a diagnostic assessment so I wouldn’t expect OP to be ticking any boxes. Nobody should be ‘diagnosing’ based on scant information, or indeed any at all here on MN.

I’ve accepted her at face value that there may be underlying issues, and have advised that she urgently gets him assessed, preferably privately to speed things up.

And I’ve said that she should incentivise him by making it clear that he will get more support at work/college if he has a diagnosis. Never mind support if and when he is able to move out. (Be aware OP you would need to support him to complete forms - PIP, Student finance and so on).

All of the advice you have given to promote independence and responsibility is sound. We have been working with our kids since reception on taking responsibility, loading washing machine and so on. So it shouldn’t be beyond a 25 year old to make an effort provided boundaries and expectations are explained.

Can’t think why him and his ex split up 🤷‍♀️. He needs to grow up. Plus be so lazy, messy, selfish and annoying. You need to give him the fix up or ship out chat and mean it. I’m not surprised your DH is sick of him

Plus NOT be so….

@movienights I lived with a husband like this. Now divorced. He is officially diagnosed adhd. An accountant

It was hell. I would complain to my parents that if only he were my son maybe I could put up with it.

Reading your post I’m not too sure.

Wishing you all the strength

btw after two years of living like this I knew there was more. So he was diagnosed at 33years. In hindsight it is clear how his parents heavily overcompensated for him, but never encouraged him to seek help. They’re still in denial of the diagnosis. That’s because his mother most likely has it.