Do you “let” your kids speak to you like shit

[Scootsville]

DS has ADHD and probably ASD. Yes I’ve looked up PDA parenting strategies etc.

He is 8, so wondering how much of this is down to age and how much to being ND.

He is the eldest and currently finding his brother SO ANNOYING so it really feels like living with a hormonal teen. The way he speaks to us his parents. He doesn’t swear or call us names (yet) but the tone, the lack of manners, telling us how annoying we are. To his friends’ parents and people in shops/cafes etc he is very polite.

He is pulled up every single time he speaks to us rudely or is unkind to his brother, he has screen bans left right and centre. I try and praise every little thing he does that isn’t a battle and offer to read or play a board game with him, but our relationship at the moment is rubbish with him being told off and given consequences 1000 a day. And I seriously worry about him developing a conduct disorder because of it, I know ND children are typically corrected much more than their peers as it is.

But I don’t think the answer is to let him speak to us like shit?

Honestly I would let a lot of it go.

Unless it is blatantly inappropriate, I'd probably let the eye rolling go and maybe even make light hearted comments.

Focus more on the positive and see if his behaviour changes. He's allowed to annoyed and he's only 8. If you pul him up every time he's irritated it's going to be a cycle of you being angry and him feeling picked on and angry and on and on.

I think thats common with kids tbh, I would pick your battles (especially if he's polite out and about).

I don't 'let' my children speak disrespectfully to me in that I will say things like 'please don't speak to me that way, I am doing my best' or 'did you meant to say INSERT POLITER PHRASE HERE?' or 'please be kinder to mummy'. But I don't tell them off beyond that or do consequences. So I don't think you need to let it all go, but maybe if you are worried that the impact of the consequences will be negative, you try not imposing them for a while. The book How to Talk so Little Kids will Listen is really great and explains why punishment consequences aren't needed. There is also a chapter on neuro diverse children I think.

That’s exactly it, a cycle. I find it hard to draw the line of blatantly inappropriate, but that’s useful and I can have a think about what is and isn’t.

Thank you, I have read that, perhaps I need to re-read. Also read lots of books on parenting ND children, some helpful some not!

That’s useful advice though. Not letting it go completely but maybe just not big huge reactions every time. Thank you.

My 9 year old is like this, some of it definitely comes from screen use where they are all very blunt with each other - I've had to talk to my kids about that not being appropriate in real life because it sounds so rude, even when it isn't meant to be.

I put up with a lot of it but pull them up when I feel like a boundary has been crossed, usually through them saying the same thing repeatedly or escalating the unpleasant tone or words/phrases. And then I'm zero tolerance and explain why.

It’s so challenging knowing what’s common for kids generally and for ND kids, and what the best way to parent is too. I don’t feel cut out for it!

Not so far but mine's only 5. I don't stop him saying anything you can't. I say if you say x to me do you think I'll want to do y for you.

I'm hoping that will work to some degree with a teenager that if you're rude to me don't expect us to do you any favours.

No. (also parent of kids who're asd/adhd

however, i don't choose to punish for it in any real sense. They get pulled up, every time, with a "We don't use that language" if its just general stuff. or a "What have we said about being nice to each other?" if they're being horrible to someone else.

If they swear at me they get the glare and "You do NOT speak to me like that?" to start with, now its more "And who the hell do you think you're speaking to like that? It had better not be me!"

In persistent times, i will give warnings about being sent to rooms, or having tablet removed for a short period of time.. usually start at 10 mins and add time for further infractions. But i never threaten punishment i won't carry out, and i often give opportunity for them to reduce it through good behaviour.

My DS does play games but not online with friends or anything, so much of the way he talks is influenced by friends or tv etc though. He says “dumb” a lot which drives DH nuts and he went through a phase of calling his brother “moron”‘which I did come down hard on. Gross language!

Thank you. I am always talking about in public and not in public etc as I get that as an ND child it won’t come as naturally to him as for some and I need to spell out what isn’t appropriate in public.

@Scootsville I could of wrote this post myself. DS is 9 next month and talks to me and DH like shit. He also has asd and ADHD. I let more slide than DH does but ds can be quite a handful at times. He doesn't have his ps5 every day I try give him some time off it so it's not all consuming

My youngest (also ADHD) has tried it a couple of times but hasn't since put it that way. The thing I have started letting go of a bit is the stomping up stairs and slamming the door, not something I'd accept from my eldest, but I understand the impulsive frustration is something that ADHD can trigger so do tend to let that slide, but will never let disrespecting a person slide.

Interesting to hear from fellow ND children parents, thank you. How old are yours if you don’t mind me asking? DS definitely knows all the swears but at the moment I can’t imagine him daring to actually swear at us but that’s my worry for teen years!

I always used to give DS opportunity to earn things removed back with good behaviour but he is such a smart lad he knew he could be a little shit, lose his screens, be good for a while and gain them back.

Er no. They value being able to sit down.

Plus they know if they aren't pleasant, courteous human beings they can get to fuck and they'll be walking there because they'd be getting no favours in the form of lifts, pocket money, phones etc.

One got a bit cocky at around ten but he was quickly convinced of the error of his ways once he realised I really didn't care about the impact on his social life.

I definitely wouldn't let it go. I find it heartbreaking to hear as some kids, and worse young adults speak to their parents most likely because it's become normal habit and dynamics in the family.

I will pick him up on it every time but when calm, I would have a conversation with him to discuss his anger and frustration. There are a number of great books that helps parents having these conversations with their child.

Ignoring it excusing systematically is never a good strategy.

Oh and just to say OP, if it gives any hope, I was in despair when he was 8, felt like I was going to have a really naughty teenager on my hands. But remember those with ADHD can mature 30% behind their peers, he's gotten a lot more emotionally intelligent (and much more empathetic) since the age of 10 and that has in turn helped with discipline and discussing consequences etc, it felt impossible at 8.

DS doesn’t actually have loads of screen time anyway because with school, us working full time and the endless activities he does (physical exercise does him wonders) there’s not loads of time. So I definitely don’t think it’s over use for him but equally I know where some ND kids need their screens to regulate, I don’t think it’s the case for him as too much time on a game can definitely make him more grouchy.

Is your DS polite to others? Mine can be rude to grandparents too who he is very close to, but I don’t think he would dare speak to a teacher like that these days (when he was younger I think he would react without thinking and get in trouble for it).

our relationship at the moment is rubbish with him being told off and given consequences 1000 a day. And I seriously worry about him developing a conduct disorder because of it

The speaking to you like shit is a symptom of the relationship's current state. He can choose his words and his tone, he does it with other people.

Cut him some slack, your fear of him developing a conduct disorder is taking you off course. Focus on what is today, not what might happen down the line, because you can often bring it into being inadvertantly. Try and bring yourself down, way down, nobody needs "consequences" 1000 times a day. Try to position yourself along side him, rather than opposite him. You're doing this together for the long haul, and he's a person with his own path, not a project for you to finish and get right.

How To Talk To Kids is a classic, I also rate Phillipa Perry The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read for a bit of perspective.

Currently 15 and 17, which is why its now adapted slightly with me giving a little attitude back.. they're old enough to take it xD

But when they were younger i worked heavily with the method of
ask not to do it
tell not to do it
warn a repeat will result in X
carry X out.

I mixed it up with 1,2,3 magic where you count at them, so you start with "1, and if i get to 3 x, will happen" and next gets a "2! don't make me get to 3 or X will happen" and then 3 is obviously 'punishment'

After a while you need only go "1" and they tend to quiet down, or mine did xD

I'm also a parent of ND children. This is some advice I was given:
Consequences

1. Use language of accountability and be clear, concise and concrete in connecting the “crime” to the consequence. (It is not necessary to rehash the sequence of events, that is most likely ngoing to make things worse because it causes shame about words/behaviours.)
2. Consequences should always be accompanied by a “clean up” that fits the “crime”. Ideally, the kid chooses the clean-up. Clean ups are not an additional punishment. They go hand in hand with consequences.
3. The “clean up” is more important and meaningful than the consequence.

Take things like “You’re losing Xbox”, “I’m taking away your phone” out of your communication. That is not using language of accountability and does not truly help connect actions to consequences. (It is reactive language, which allows kids to feel like they are the victim.) Here’s an example: “You chose to not follow your timeline this morning and made us late. You chose not to have your phone with you today. I hope you’ll chose to have it tomorrow." The key here is talking in soundbites, without adding judgements, lecturing or emotional reactivity. Don’t forget the 80% less words rule. Stick to clear concise rules like “Do not hit your brother” versus abstract rules like “be kind to everyone and keep your hands to yourself”. It can be useful to post rules around the house. Visual prompts can be a great reminder to young people.

I am autistic and DC is autistic / ADHD. Tone is INCREDIBLY hard to judge as an autistic child because it varies depending on situation. Throw in difficulty recognising hierarchy and you have exactly the situation you describe.

We try to make an exaggerated joke of it where possible otherwise you get into this cycle of DC being dysregulated, being rude, us getting cross, DC getting more dysregulated and less able to communicate politely etc etc. So when we hear "Drink!" I might respond with "Did I just hear "mother darling, when you have a spare moment might I request a cold beverage please?"" When she is regulated she will sometimes replicate the exaggerated phrasing.

Calling people annoying - is he having this said to him at school? ND kids at that age will often be told by their peers that they are annoying (probably because we are) and if the ND child is upset by it the NT kids will reassure them they were "just joking." And obviously everyone enjoys a joke, right, so calling people annoying is okay particularly because you can see others saying things that could be unkind but are clearly being said and received in good humour. It's an absolute minefield and with awareness of that I would probably model some responses for him. "You're so annoying!" "I know darling, I practice every day." I would try to avoid joining on the same level of dysregulation as then both of you feel like crap.

This really does give me hope, thank you. I worry a lot about his future. He’s been particularly challenging at certain ages - 3, 6, and now 8. We are constantly going through bad patches.

I wouldn't let it go but I also wouldn't try to tackle it it that moment.

Similar strategy to ignoring a het up toddler until they're calm and then speaking to them later about it.

“DRINK” would probably get a laugh to be fair, I don’t see that as rudeness so much as just kids learning the ways of the world as you say.

Don’t know if he is being called annoying in school, if he is he will give it back, I definitely don’t worry about him being victimised. Although he has one or two really undesirable friends. What you say there about NT kids being mean then saying “just kidding” is DS all over though! I’ll ask him to do something, I’ll get NO in return, then “just kidding”. Same when he’s nasty to his brother (sometimes, others it’s justified because brother is so annoying so he says).

I wouldn't let it go, as in your home you are preparing them to go out into the world. I would make my reaction boring and repetative, though, so as not to add fuel to an already difficult situation, and so that the rudeness isn't being rewarded by a big reaction.