Do you “let” your kids speak to you like shit

[Scootsville]

DS has ADHD and probably ASD. Yes I’ve looked up PDA parenting strategies etc.

He is 8, so wondering how much of this is down to age and how much to being ND.

He is the eldest and currently finding his brother SO ANNOYING so it really feels like living with a hormonal teen. The way he speaks to us his parents. He doesn’t swear or call us names (yet) but the tone, the lack of manners, telling us how annoying we are. To his friends’ parents and people in shops/cafes etc he is very polite.

He is pulled up every single time he speaks to us rudely or is unkind to his brother, he has screen bans left right and centre. I try and praise every little thing he does that isn’t a battle and offer to read or play a board game with him, but our relationship at the moment is rubbish with him being told off and given consequences 1000 a day. And I seriously worry about him developing a conduct disorder because of it, I know ND children are typically corrected much more than their peers as it is.

But I don’t think the answer is to let him speak to us like shit?

Oh mine are smart, why i said 'occasionally'.

It's not a matter of being good for a bit, i use it as a bargaining chip to get them to do something useful i need doing.

So.. want that 20 minute tablet 'sin bin' cancelled. Tidy your room. help me with my chores for 10 mins, fill the drinks up/set the table, take the laundry baskets upstairs, empty the bins...etc. Generally something that'll take 20 mins xD

Absolutely not. I have brought my children up to respect other people (and to expect respect themselves) and the slightest hint of unkindness or snappiness gets stamped on. As a result, it happens very rarely.
Friends' kids are regularly rude to them, because there are no consequences.

Thing with ADHD is stuff can go straight from brain out of mouth and it takes longer than "normal" to get control of that so you do have to pick your battles or as you say, you will have constantly negative interactions.

As well as excuse me, the oldies such as 'what's the magic word?' etc.

I do find myself doing this a fair but with my GCSE students tbh and they certainly don't all have ADHD...in fact the two definitely with ADHD are among the more polite!

Oh yes this tends to work well, DS responds well to short term and instant rewards.

Stamped on?

You would likely find those of us with ND kids are quite the reverse of "frilly pushover parents."

We are parenting kids with unusually low impulse control and who are often constantly triggered by things in the environment.

AIBU may not be the place for this, OP.

You need ND-informed advice.

I get so bored of people suggesting authoritarian solutions on here.

What does your second sentence mean - "they value being able to sit down"?

OP, I am lucky in that my daughter has barely ever (so far) challenged me in this way but I do have some experience of this kind of challenge as a teacher. And I tend instinctively to be too quick to reprimand I think, when it's just tone of voice or whatever, because I am naturally irritable and don't like being spoken to in a way I perceive as rude

But I remind myself that I have frequently clashes with partners too over their tone of voice (for example) so it could be that my threshold for thinking I am being addressed rudely is quite low. So now I try to consider whether the person (child or adult) has actually intended to give offence, before I jump in. Obviously you can't know for sure, but you can make a pretty good guess 90% of the time. Deliberate rudeness needs challenging, but I think more careless rudeness can be gently flagged without a big deal being made. After all, you have to think of your own well being too - living in permanent conflict is exhausting.

Did I hear "gosh, I fear this approach would not work for me and consequently would neither use nor endorse it" ? 😁

In theory I agree but the SN boards get so little traffic. I can’t believe I’ve got to page 3 with 95% helpful responses though, I’m really grateful for the majority of the advice I’ve had

I have 1 with ASD / ADHD and politeness and respect is a hill i will die on. I pick them up on it each and every time. Ranged from when they were younger with

“sorry mummy understand rude children”

to now, teens

“would you like to say that again because Im sure I heard something rude coming out of your mouth”

and “I’m sorry I don’t understand”

my kids are 99% of the time polite. Manners and respect are utterly non negotiable and I simply will not have rudeness. It took my ASD ADHD child a long time to get there and to understand but no o will not have rudeness and certainly not in an 8 year old

Yes that's true.

I find Facebook groups of parents with DC with same diagnosis can be helpful.

The frilly comment made me laugh, that's the kind of twattish comment I'd have made a few years ago (albeit in my head...) having a SN child really does open your mind.

Ah having to do something is just ignore and continue to tell him to get it done.

That’s protest behaviour - I don’t mind that and very common

Meanness to brother not ok.

When he starts being agnostic ( or can see when mine are revving up) that’s when I’ll try and distract by touching in a soothing way and trying to find a connection. To avoid them all being bollocked

There is a book called Who's In Charge by Eddie Gallagher which is about violence towards parents and how to prevent it and he does have a huge bit about swearing/disrespect towards parents.

The whole book is ridiculously, insanely over-long, but it does have some useful pointers in if you do feel like this has gone too far or want to discourage/nip it in the bud. Skip most of it because it is utter waffle, but the chapters about acceptable behaviour and consequences are very good - much better than anything else I've read about how to apply consequences.

The gist is that basically, you have to give them something so that you have something to take away, and then it has to be divided carefully into increments so you end up doing things like 10p fines for swearing - which sounds like they wouldn't give a shit about it but apparently it does actually work quite well and it can also lead to a bit more of a jokey/silly attitude around it where you can say things like "Keep going, you're saving me loads of money!" and takes the tension out of a situation. (There are lots more pointers about how to keep it calm, light and not increasing the tension/volatility in a situation).

Which, I guess, is also what the non response/no different rules for children vs adults (broadly) does.

If they know they can get you all riled up by swearing, then that's an unreasonable amount of power for them to have, if they know they can get you upset or worried or intimidated by swearing then again, it's too powerful. If you overpower them, that might work but it's precarious/temporary - depending on what's driving them to do it in the first place, it can be that overpowering them only works until such time as they break the taboo of the next level of power, which could be violence or self-harm.

I think it is likely also important, certainly for the "no different rules" approach, to make space for them to get their voice heard in a calmer/more acceptable way - if they feel like the only time anyone ever listens to them is when they rant and rave, then they're more likely to rant and rave (sounds like a familiar feeling as a parent, TBF!) Of course that doesn't mean that you have to give them everything if they ask for it nicely, but making sure you do spend some time listening and taking their feelings into account is important IMO.

Yes. Oh dear. I think I got lulled into a false sense of security with the first few responses and I'm going to get piled on by the "take no prisoners" crew

Oh well. Must remember the hide thread button if it starts to raise my blood pressure.

It's not 'frilly' parenting.

Its called learning to adapt to your ND childs needs and triggers.

Authoritarian parenting rarely works.. i have asd/adhd and a level of demand avoidance myself, so why on earth would i parent in a way that would (And does) trigger me when my 70+yo mother still tries it with me when i do something she disapproves of.

Fuck that for a game of solidiers.

My kids get firm, fair and empathetic parenting that works with them, not against them.

He is polite to other family members and to staff at school it's just me and DH but he is polite to us at times too I have to give him that. He goes to classes a couple of times a week so he has somewhere to channel all his energy. He does get more screen time at the weekend as school isn't on

No, my children were never rude to me. It just wasn't tolerated.

I'm ND, and I know how to behave.

Daughter and I both have ADHD.

She can be short with me and will say things that are unfiltered.

I don't give consequences, I don't think they work for things like that. I do talk to her calmly and explain that there is no reason for her to speak to me like that, I'm trying my best, I'm trying to work out the situation too etc and it tends to go in for a while and then we have to have the conversation again. I think that's the nature of ND parenting, you can't tell them once and think it's enough.

And do you ever wonder if your adult children ever have problems expressing themselves or being scared of their bosses?

Children are not little robots. We expect them to behave like adults - when as adults we can be rude ourselves. I’m not talking about aggressive destructive behaviour but not allowing your kids to have an opinion or be grumpy or just be an arse in general is suffocating for them. Then we have so many struggling adults because their parents were so intolerant. Because their Victorian parents were exactly the same to them

I'm trying to work out the situation too etc and it tends to go in for a while and then we have to have the conversation again. I think that's the nature of ND parenting, you can't tell them once and think it's enough
Or it's the nature that she can continue to do it without much consequences so why would she stops when she gets to vent out that way.

Im there too. If mine are having a bad day, I'll let individual rudeness go during a meltdown and when they are calm we will talk about why it's not appropriate to talk to people like that, and give one sanction for all the instances of rudeness. If they're then rude again after that, they get another sanction. Ok they can't always help it, but my rule is they're allowed to be angry, they're not allowed to be insulting and offensive. It's a long, slow, slow process.

Although I've figured out taking tv time away is sometimes counter productive - sometimes they need it to help them to decompress and calm down.

Ultimately you don't want him to grow into a difficult adult

I'm in the same boat as you OP. DS is almost 8yo and diagnosed ADHD recently - though we've suspected for a few years now. Struggles a lot with emotional regulation, but manages to keep his emotions in check somewhat successfully during the school day (his fidgeting, calling out answers etc... not so much!)

Daily battles happen over things that I naively think should be easy/simple. Brushing teeth is a big trigger for some reason! Generally being asked to do tasks will often involve a sudden outburst and a rude tone/shouting at me.

It's a huge learning curve. I have tried to let more things go recently, mainly because I can't keep up this level of intensity anymore - it's parenting on hard mode! I try not to make too many demands of him, and let him decompress but obviously some tasks are a non-negotiable.

This thread has been really helpful to me - thank you everyone. I don't have many friends with the same experiences of parenting as me, and its a relief to see that DS's behaviour is quite common/typical of ND 7/8yo. If anyone fancies teaming up for an ongoing support/check-in thread for our pre-teen ADHD/ASD kids I'd willing join that in the hope it might save my sanity!