Do you “let” your kids speak to you like shit

[Scootsville]

DS has ADHD and probably ASD. Yes I’ve looked up PDA parenting strategies etc.

He is 8, so wondering how much of this is down to age and how much to being ND.

He is the eldest and currently finding his brother SO ANNOYING so it really feels like living with a hormonal teen. The way he speaks to us his parents. He doesn’t swear or call us names (yet) but the tone, the lack of manners, telling us how annoying we are. To his friends’ parents and people in shops/cafes etc he is very polite.

He is pulled up every single time he speaks to us rudely or is unkind to his brother, he has screen bans left right and centre. I try and praise every little thing he does that isn’t a battle and offer to read or play a board game with him, but our relationship at the moment is rubbish with him being told off and given consequences 1000 a day. And I seriously worry about him developing a conduct disorder because of it, I know ND children are typically corrected much more than their peers as it is.

But I don’t think the answer is to let him speak to us like shit?

It’s definitely picking battles.

Never name calling or swearing.

Regarding tone of voice it depends on context. Are they shattered after school? Are they struggling with school work? Friendship issues?

But direct challenge gets challenged back and then we will discuss it when they have calmed down

protesting about something is different and can be let go if not too bad.

My 10 year old is VERY hormonal so I have a lot of understanding when her moods switch but we always talk about it after - when she is in a different mood.

They are not robots and will always push boundaries it’s their nature.

But being rude for the sake of being a little arse gets nipped in the bud pronto

I always find touching them when you see they are starting to be an arse is really helpful, a random cuddle, ruffle of hair asking about their day/game can bring them back to earth a bit

my two used to go "DRINK!" at me.

My response was usually to just carry on what i was doing and without batting an eyelid say something like "I'm sure i heard something, but can't be my kids, my kids know how to ask for things nicely"

and they'd generally go UGH at me, then ask a bit more politely, usually with an attitude, but i let that slide for a 'please'

with mine being teens now there is a bit of
"Oi" "Pardon?" "Excuse me!" "Ahem!" and "Language!" that i use to just.. nudge/remind.

On occasion i will tell them if they can't be nice/polite, to go and be rude by themselves in their rooms.

Remember that choosing not to punish us not the same as accepting or approving.

You can’t actually gag your child, therefore they will say things you don’t like.

All you need to do is say ‘ I don’t like that’, a move on.

Respond positively and speedily to polite requests. Move more slowly- if at all- for rude requests.

Use plenty of reminders about polite, respectful communication.

And wait for things to improve. They will.

I used to tell mine to treat me as politely as their grandma. That stopped the swearing.

My DD has suspected ADHD and I really struggle with this; I don’t “let” her do it but it’s exhausting always picking her up on it as it can lead to a meltdown when otherwise things are calm.
I try to go down the route of saying “did you mean to be so rude/did you mean to use that tone of voice” or I’ll just look at her and say calmly “excuse me” and she knows.
I really try to praise when I see her remember to ask her siblings to move nicely etc rather than just a “move!”

I say 'I'd like you to adjust your tone and then come back to me' every time. Using the 'I' statement takes the emphasis off them being 'wrong' but puts the lens on what I won't accept. So if they say 'Get me a drink' or 'No, I am not doing [my request], you are being annoying' I say 'I'd like you to adjust your tone and then come back to me' before it escalates. They go off, usually get their own drink/think about their own part in the interaction and then come back to me being more reasonable.

It has got to the point where DS2 (now 16) actually self corrects and says 'I need to adjust my tone don't I?' DD however, still rails against it but I am a master of grey rock and have a voice in my head that I am actually just teaching them respectful human interaction and I am not being horrible and this isn't about me being a horrible mum.

I could have written this post too - DD is nearly 8, we’re under Early help and looking at ADHD pathway.
Last night when I told the kids to come up to bed, DD retorted “FINE, idiot!” - but she was going up the stairs to bed.
I remember reading that if they are following instruction, to let the rudeness go to an extent, as they’re just letting off steam (transitions are still hard for her.) However my husband did intervene to tell her off.

That said, when her being rude to me was more frequent I resorted to the consequences- losing screen time. But
with DD these “consequences” escalate things so badly, she’ll start throwing things, raging. But I felt I couldn’t keep letting it go.

Interesting a PP said about implementing consequences in a ways that’s not “reactive” and the child doesn’t feel a victim. This is exactly how it comes across to DD so really helpful advice.
I know the Explosive child/our Early Help advisor suggests working with the child on a contract when they’re calm to tackle the issue, so they contribute to devising the appropriate consequence.
following for any other advice!

I know people say pick your battles but to me this is one I'd fight.
This is something I came down really hard with both my children and I pulled their behaviour and their attitude up from an early age.
My children are adults now and apart from sulky tantrums on their teens they have never spoken to me or their dad disrespectful.
I took the view of ' if they do this at 8 and I tolerate it, what will they be like at 15'
I understand that you have the complication of ADHD but that doesn't mean you can't put boundaries in place and keep reinforcing them.

A lot of the rudeness is in response to having to do something - get dressed/teeth brushed/shoes on. Or if he doesn’t like something. Or gets told off - usually for being mean to his brother, he goes out of his way to do this.

It’s also just his general attitude. Very antagonistic so is looking to get a rise but so hard not to react.

To be fair if he’s asking for something he wants he will ask pretty politely.

Oh wow I would’ve hit the roof at idiot. Transitions are a huge issue here! The root of most of our problems. Otherwise I would’ve ignored too, if it was just “FINE” but doing what I asked I might’ve said “excuse Me” but if the request is being complied with, pick my battles.

If its any consolation, my sons college do always tell me that outside that little bit of teen attitude, he's generally a polite, pleasant, helpful young man, which is nice :)

DD meanwhile at 15 is in that stage of getting detentions for swearing at the kids annoying her in class, so we've had to have a sit down and a chat about her finding ways to redirect/mitigate her anger before it gets to 'piss off' point.

I do spend some time when they're in the mood for it, discussing feelings/reactions/how words/tone make others feel.

Demand avoidance/reactivity is very hard to deal with. I mean they HAVE to put on their shoes/brush their teeth/go to school don't they. It's a tough thing to deal with OP. Especially when you have another child who responds to the basics of parenting and doesn't battle you.

ASD parent raising an ASD child.

we don’t have different rules for children and adults. We speak to our child like we speak to one another and expect her to do the same. We have managed to raise a teenager who is very polite, but who can also hold an adult conversation.

My other child has his challenges but it’s incredible the way he just does what he’s asked without a battle 98% of the time.

I think I am WAY more lax on this than other people. I wouldn't like to be sworn at e.g. called a fucking bitch (but, touch wood, that's never happened) but I don't mind them saying things like "That's so stupid" or "You're so annoying" when they are frustrated, and I don't object to tone, huffing/sighing, or saying things like "Why do I even have to do that?" or "I have to do everything around here!" (though the last might provoke a laugh!)

However I don't engage in a conversation if they are in that mood. I say something like "Look, you're too riled up to discuss this now/this isn't going anywhere productive. Let's both cool down a bit and talk about this later."

If they can be polite with others, then they know what to do and IME they will do it when it's necessary. I have worried in the past that DS1 might roll his eyes and huff at other adults who are supposed to be an authority figure but it doesn't seem to have been a problem.

This is really useful thank you. That’s my worry, especially with the possibility of ASD - that my DS will think what is accepted at home will be elsewhere. We have been through phases where he answers back to teachers once he got familiar with them, although thankfully it was in earlier years - hoping he’s grasped the basics of teachers being authority by now.

I think one of the issues with ADHD as well is the impact to their self esteem from being continually told off, so I like some of the suggestions here around tackling afterwards not during the moment, probably much easier to have a calmer conversation than it becoming retaliatory.

I know, I am the same with DS1 (he's now an adult) who just got himself up, fed, dressed and out of the door for school with ease whereas DS2 gets in the shower at 7.51am when we are due to leave the house at 8am!

But DS2 and DD have attention issues and also live between two houses so I have to gently remind myself that DS1 didn't have those challenges to bear. It's mega hard though when it's your every day life. But you are paying attention to this, discussing it on here with curiosity, musing about the impact on your parent-child relationship...you are parenting fiercely. If you weren't queued into it that would be more worrying but you are because you care about it and are being solution focussed. You should give yourself some credit for that OP.

Yes I am so so aware of this, and how it just perpetuates a bad cycle.

Thank you that’s really lovely.

Jesus what frilly pushover parenting.

Give them lots of choices but closed choices. Sometimes that heads off a meltdown. So when they're not wanting to put shoes on, I ask then if they're putting them on now or in the car? If it's raining and they say car, I ask them Won't your socks get wet? They might just say no so I shrug, stick extra socks in my bag and let them crack on. If you phrase it as a question and just accept their choice they tend to start making better ones.

Also never threaten anything that you aren't willing to follow through.

Yes - that is precisely why I never did ‘earn it back ‘ - it might work with some SC, but not with smart ones who work that out quickly.

I had zero tolerance for rudeness but no ND children.

I would give one warning for any form of rudeness, then we will leave activity and go straight home, it worked, we had to leave a party once ,resulting in many tears but message received and it didn't happen again.

Now as teens there is no family bad language beyond the odd irritable comment, !
Being an older parent l was not prepared to live in chaos with rude badly behaved children so l suppose this dictated my parenting, and if consistent it avoids losing your temper as you are listened to if they know what you calmly say always happens.

This must be much harder with SEN or ND children though.

Oh I hear you.

Definitely decide which hills you will die on with this.

I find a rapid "EXCUSE me"? can work well.

I often get complimented on her manners by people outside the house...