Reasonable to expect a surgeon to do this?

[Beeturpot]

ex dh is a surgeon. He became a consultant after we separated. I did all drop offs etc and was called in all emergencies and if dc needed collecting etc. He said he couldn’t leave if in work as it wasn’t the sort of job that allowed it.

I have recently been promoted. I’m feeling resentful that I am doing all the running around for dc. They live with me. Is he right that this is too difficult for him? He claims to start work by 8am and often leaves late. I don’t know anyone in his area of work and i don’t know if he’s taking the piss. He does do his share at weekends. Just feeling fed up.

I don’t agree, you know the NHS is understaffed in many specialties. Consultant surgeons are not as common as a nurse or a GP.

That's their responsibility to sort out.

They're in a job where leaving at short notice will cause untold problems for other people. They have children. They must KNOW that at some point those children are going to be sent home early from school or nursery or need picking up in an emergency; come on, some of them are literally brain surgeons.

Why should their patients, already at the mercy of an absolute shitshow in the NHS, suffer further for their lack of forward planning?

Why can’t stepping up mean pay an annual allowance to OP to fund a nanny ?

It can.

But it won't affect the second part of OP's situation:

I did all drop offs etc and was called in all emergencies and if dc needed collecting etc.

In an emergency, the OP's ex should participate in the decision-making. Maybe their nanny can help, or parents. And maybe sometimes, a parent is needed, and in that case, OP's ex may need to be available.

As my DBro has had to be on occasion, each time a colleague covering for him, as he has other times for them.

Why does the OP have to rely on goodwill?

I totally agree that his job doesn't make it easy to do his fair share, and presumably the maintenance he pays (and the lifestyle she had before they split) reflects that.

BUT: they are still his kids, and he is still 50% responsible for them.

It's not a question of "goodwill", it's a question of being a father and doing his share of looking after his own kids.

I also suspect that he does start at 8am and does leave late. Especially if he is doing private work as well.

So he needs to pay for extra childcare. Or find another solution, like willing relatives.

I'm shocked (well, not that shocked) that we've heard from a female surgeon who successfully balances her job with her parenting responsibilities.

I'm shocked (well, not that shocked) that people think her male counterparts are simply far too important to do the same for their own kids.

I'm shocked (well, not that shocked) that most posters seem to think that this is an issue just for employees to solve for themselves, rather than the partial responsibility of their employer - an employer that clearly doesn't do enough to help its employees in this regard. Because it involves actually spending money and putting effort in, presumably, when waving flags and claiming "EDI is a priority for us" costs nothing.

you know the NHS is understaffed in many specialties. Consultant surgeons are not as common as a nurse or a GP.

Meaning what?

You think there wouldn't be another consultant who could take over? That would be really unusual. Could happen, and I don't know the NHS well enough to say, but you're inventing scenarios

He should be arranging childcare just as you would if you didn't have anyone to help

I understand why you are asking the question op. The impression from the public (understandably) is that surgeons cannot be interrupted for any reason ever. The reality is that not every moment of every day can be taken up with operating and there are breaks within the day. As we all know surgeries are often cancelled due to lack of beds. I would be surprised if every day was solidly taken up with operating, even surgeons have to do outpatient clinics to discuss procedures with patients. In what field does he work? I'd say something like obstetrics and gynaecology and colorectal are the most unpredictable. Other fields you would struggle to find a consultant after a certain time but they will be "on-call" but it won't be the same person everyday. Don't burn yourself out, he should contribute to arranging childcare, if not in person then at least monetarily.

Of course it would help. Most “emergencies” are child has thrown up and needs to go home early. Nannies can and do care for sick children.

They aren’t blue light to hospital emergencies. If they were, both OP and ex would have to go when they can.

That's their responsibility to sort out.
Don't be so silly. You haven't a notion what you are talking about.

If there's an emergency needing a parent, it's an emergency needing a parent. And that's ok.

Plenty of male doctors also are available for their DC when needed, when it's an emergency or important.

Yes, it depends on the speciality but it is not common for there to be several consultant surgeons of same speciality not operating and just doing paperwork, ready to go all at the same time….

This isn’t dermatology

I think rather you are inventing a utopia NHS rather than the gutted one we have.

You're right there are less specialists than GPs but that doesn't mean surgeons can be worked into the ground, it's vital they're well rested, they cannot be made to work 24 hours a day.

@IbisDancer

Did you even read my post, where I referred to extended nanny care? 🤦🏻‍♀️

But if it is a situation where parents are needed, OP & her ex have to deal with that equally, and wrap around care is irrelevant then.

I worked in a childcare centre in a village that happened to have a v high % of the local population that were in the medical field. Of all the consultants/surgeon parents I met over 5 years I can only think of 2 families where the second parent worked out of the home 2, both of them were GPs and had au-pairs/grandparents as well as the creche. It would be v difficult to manage a job for the second parent as they are the default for school drop offs, illness, be certain of being at creche before it closed every evening.
Your ex needs to fork out money to take the load off you, but whether that's likely.......

Very few "emergencies" need a parent. Picking up child early from nursery, which is mostly what we're discussing here as per the OP, doesn't. Again, why do you not have a back up plan for this eventuality that you know as a parent is likely to occur? What parent hasn't had to pick up their child from nursery from time to time? It is your responsibility to have an alternative option for childcare if you are in the kind of job where leaving to do it can cause such problems for other people. Why do you not have it?

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth

You just carry on reading your own version of the thread, and ignoring the many knowledgable posters who are correcting your utter misinformation. 🙄

Exactly, so OP’s ex can’t waltz out at 2:30pm to do the school run because OP has a client meeting on zoom, leaving them having to tell another consultant to come in six hours early for a 16hr shift…

The fact that I feel it is unacceptable to cancel someone's surgery to go and pick your child up early is not "misinformation".

Again: Why do people who may find themselves in this situation not have alternative provision? I'd like to hear your answer for that. It's lack of planning, pure and simple, causing untold headaches for other people.

@parkrun500club she shouldn't have to rely on his goodwill, ofcourse not he should step up and fulfill his equal parental responsibilities. However courts can only enforce having access to the children they can't enforce the parent actually taking it up or providing childcare on his time. If he doesn't bother doing it, it will just fall to OP and she'll get a phone call to say no ones picked them up.

The courts might amend the contact schedule to give him less days so OP can make proper plans for childcare or maybe up his maintenance to cover the cost of extra childcare but they don't tend to want to decrease the fathers access even if they aren't taking it up.

According to the surgeons on this thread that's perfectly acceptable.

No doubt most of them are well-paid enough to have private healthcare and have never been at the mercy of NHS surgery waiting lists, though, so a cancelled appointment would probably only mean a delay of a couple of days to them.

They live in another world, certainly not the real one.

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth i think you are saying that he should organise alternative childcare that isn’t his ex wife? It’s just that your tone reads that she should do everything regardless even though she’s getting divorced. Or am I misunderstanding.

I've not said she should do everything. Not once. I've said that people in this kind of job should have some kind of alternative childcare provision sorted out so that they don't have to leave work and bugger up the health of people relying on them to pick up their kids from nursery. Sure, if he can't do it himself he should organise some other way of getting it done.

Strangely most of the surgeons on the thread are reluctant to address that, or why they haven't done it.

Perhaps because there is no possible way to have a back up plan, and you have been utterly unable to suggest what that back up plan should be.

We had a back up plan - my father in law. He died recently and now we don’t have one anymore.

You can tell a surgeon to jump to the moon and then say “not my concern” when asked how but it’s not a particularly credible position to hold.

what they do and do not have to do regarding their job is between them and their employer. They don’t have to answer to you.

I do wonder what specialty these surgeons are in? Perhaps it is not urgent things like trauma or oncology surgeon but orthopaedic surgeons doing knee replacements or scoping out frozen shoulders or plastic surgeons doing nose jobs…things that can literally be rescheduled and are not life or death.