Reasonable to expect a surgeon to do this?

[Beeturpot]

ex dh is a surgeon. He became a consultant after we separated. I did all drop offs etc and was called in all emergencies and if dc needed collecting etc. He said he couldn’t leave if in work as it wasn’t the sort of job that allowed it.

I have recently been promoted. I’m feeling resentful that I am doing all the running around for dc. They live with me. Is he right that this is too difficult for him? He claims to start work by 8am and often leaves late. I don’t know anyone in his area of work and i don’t know if he’s taking the piss. He does do his share at weekends. Just feeling fed up.

Ignore most of the posts on here and listen to welshweasal as that's the way the job works.

I would ask him if he has a fixed SPA session, when that is and whether he can be jobplanned to do it from home. Consultant surgeons tend to do full weeks on call whereas anaesthetists have set days (at our Trust anyway). Personally I think we should be normalising male surgeons be present in their children's lives.

Job planning is definitely become more work life balance friendly. It has to to retain staff.

I love how people act like a surgeon is some sort of god who can't ever leave work.

The reasons given here apply to millions of jobs that millions of parents work in. A nursery worker can't just walk out leaving babies under ratio. A police officer can't just abandon their post.

Parents in all these jobs don't just leave all parental responsibility to their spouse.

They have to:

• get colleagues to cover
• do their share of the flexibility on their admin portions of time
• use paid childcare
• ask their own families to help
• sometimes, when its urgent, they do have to cancel the theatre list etc. Just as they would if they were ill etc.

OK, so he's knee deep in removing a 4yr olds burst apendix, catastrophic haemorrhaging. But OH No, he has to leave to take his dc to gymnastics.
Wwyd?

I bet he has more flexibility than he let's on. Being a consultant is when it gets easier, you can choose to adjust clinc lists etc. However, if he covers an emergency on call rota those weeks / days are very difficult.
Obviously when he's operating he can't usually leave. But some lists may have a senior registrar- but won't necessarily know in advance.

Find out when his clinics and lists are, he'll have some time for other activities as they're not constantly in ops or clinics, and that may be when he's able to leave, but really, it's the type of job wheee it's pretty unlikely he can just leave - patients will suffer the fall out to be honest

Can he ask a family member or friend/new partner to help out?

So you would cancel an afternoon of operations because your kid has a snotty nose and nursery say they have to go home?

Aahh I thought this was at times when the kids are unwell - just get them into breakfast and after school clubs, ensure he does all the weekend stuff and also plenty of admin for them / holidays activities too

How can you not know what a surgeon does when you were married to one? Of course he can’t just leave.

Go to YouTube, type in ‘surgery’ then think if you’d be happy if halfway through one of the procedures posted, the chap doing it just left you open and went to pick his kids up. 😅

This.

It sounds as though you have not yet agreed divorce terms or a financial settlement ? Other than resentment which is understandable, what do you actually WANT? Full custody, EOW, 50:50? A financial settlement that allows for wraparound care at your home? A family nanny or au pair who works between your homes one week on, one week off?

For now I think I would ask the advice of your solicitor on what records you need to build up ahead of a mediation or whatever process you are heading into ? If your ex is looking for 50:50 but fails to make any sort of adequate planning and constantly dumps you in it, you will have multiple examples of this. Don't get into a slanging match, document it.
If you want 50:50 so you have some sort of life outside your children then, what are the levers you can pull to illustrate that on his clinic days for example, it's perfectly practical for him to plan his days and look after his children. In practice though if they are quite small, having the kids overnight if he's straight into surgery the next day isn't going to be practical so I guess how do you plan for an evolving model and cost as they get older.

I thought that too. I bet they were thrilled.

@Whatevershallidowithmylife no I clearly wouldn't pick a child up from nursery or school for a snotty nose, nor would they expect me to. But on the very odd occasion where a child vomits, or injures themselves to the point of needing medical attention, then as a last resort I would! If it was on a non clinical day it wouldn't be an issue, ditto on my husband's WFH day. My husband works 2 hours away so if we got a call when I was in theatre and he was at work, I would do what I could to leave asap. Sometimes there would be a colleague who could step in and finish the list, or if I had a senior registrar they may be able to cover.

But if there was no one, then yes I would cancel the rest of the patients and go collect my child. What else do you expect me to do?

It’s not that sad. It’s not just doctors/HCPs as others have said. Teachers for example don’t get to go to their own kids school stuff at all. I’m off today as I knew on advance she had a school thing and DH is on call so I booked annual leave to go.

The way I see it there’s a big difference between expecting surgeon exH to finish work every Tuesday at 3pm to take DC to brownies - probably not going to happen or do 9am drop offs and him not stepping up for emergencies and wrap around drop offs.

If you spend enough money you can have childcare to suit whatever shift pattern you want. It may mean that on his days DC are in childcare for a long period and it would be unreasonable to object to that. It may be if he is the emergency response that he sends a relative or friend to pick them up of they are ill not him or that if “emergency “ is a missing swim kit then DC has to sit out swimming and get told off as he won’t be dropping it off but those are the common experiences of may children with working parents as you will find with your job getting busier - neither of you will be able to drop everything for the “last minute PTA bake sale volunteer needed“ stuff and the Dc will manage just fine

If I'd been waiting for six months for an appointment with a consultant for a debilitating medical condition and I got to the hospital and found out it was cancelled because they'd left early to pick up their child, I'd be making an official complaint about it.

Yes, the child has to be picked up, but you can't cancel peoples' crucial appointments to do it. You'd have to get someone else to do it. Paid for, if necessary.

Christ, I hope you're not an oncologist!

Yes his job will typically start early and end late.

Therefore he needs to pay for childcare for his half of caring duties.

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth no I'm not an oncologist, I'm a surgeon, hopefully one with more compassion than you seem to have!

Do you honestly suggest I pay for a full time nanny to be available just on the off chance that one of my kids needed collecting from school?

In 8 years of parenting I can count on two hands the number of days they have been too unwell to attend school/nursery so it wouldn't make any financial sense to do so!

In the extremely unlikely event I had to cancel a patient, they would get a profuse apology and be rebooked within a week.

Even oncologists get ill sometimes you know, doctors are not superhuman, nor are we paid good enough salaries to employ standby childcare!

So it's not beyond the realms of possibility Op

Sure, if we're talking about people with cancer, of course a timely appointment or surgical intervention is less important than a child with a cold. 🙄

Seriously?! That's what you think? No wonder the NHS is already on its knees if its surgeons think it's acceptable to cancel appointments and operations because of childcare issues. No it isn't.

You're a surgeon, so I'm sure you can afford to pay someone to pick up and look after your child for you if needs be.

Jfc no wonder so many surgeons think theyre gods gift with so many people fawning over them on this thread.

Op - you are not being unreasonable at all.

He can't come out of surgery sometimes, but what he absolutely can and should do, is have a backup plan which he pays for, which isn't you, if it falls on his days.

When I got divorced, yes, to a surgeon, it was very soon afterwards that he texted me he couldn't pick the girls up when he was due to. I responded 'not sure why you're texting me about it. Organise a taxi/ childminder and don't ask me again.'

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth

Honestly your posts are bonkers

How would someone like @welshweasel have standby care available for the very rare occasion when they might have an emergency needing their child being collected?

It's like any other job. Of course, a surgeon won't cancel an appointment or their list on a whim. Sometimes they have to, in most cases colleagues will cover, sometimes, rarely, they can't.

Not bonkers at all. If a surgeon cancelled my appointment for childcare reasons, absolutely I'd be making a complaint about it. Perhaps you've never had to live in constant pain, or put all your faith in an appointment you've had to wait months or years for only to have it cancelled.

She's a surgeon, I'm sure she can figure out and afford a way of having her child collected.

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth where have I suggested I'd pick a child up if they had a cold?!!

As I said, 2 kids in full time childcare since under 6 months old, between them they've had less than 10 days off school/nursery in 8 years.

So far I've been lucky that none of them have been short notice and on a theatre day, but if one of them fell out of a tree at school and broke their arm for example then yes, if my husband was unavailable then of course I would go pick them up, irrespective of what patients I had waiting (although as already discussed it would be rare not to be able to find a colleague to cover).

Who on earth am I suddenly going to ring, to ask to drive to school and collect said injured child, irrespective of payment?!

The NHS is not on its knees because of the health of its consultants kids, nor do I think you genuinely believe that.

it was very soon afterwards that he texted me he couldn't pick the girls up when he was due to. I responded 'not sure why you're texting me about it. Organise a taxi/ childminder and don't ask me again

How lovely

YANBU to expect them to make every effort to meet the arrangements made. But a bit of give & take regardless of roles is hardly too much to expect? My ex is a useless abusive arse, and I wouldn't send that (be pointless anyway, as he does / did nothing).

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth

It is bonkers. It's still a job. And sometimes, family emergencies come first.

Obviously not to be taken lightly. But sometimes, it's necessary.

What mythical infallible back up plan would you propose? 🤷🏻‍♀️

What’s the custody and cms arrangements like
if they live with you I’m guessing it’s an 80/20 split do thinking school runs on your days would be down to you

My DBro is a consultant - obs/gynae so he has a list once a week, as well as clinics & SIL is a GP, who works p/t.

They spend a fortune on wraparound & other care.

On her working days, he has more flexibility than her, except his list day. He'll take the kids to school, can often do school- / kids-related things. As a consultant (in Ireland), he is only answerable really to himself / patients ie no clocking in or out, no boss! He works v hard, in most weekends, even if not on call, list days are at least 12 hours straight surgery.

But he can move things around or block off time, on some days.

However on a list day he is basically uncontactable & someone would have to be at death's door before he'd be available.

So in OP's situation, there's absolutely some flex, though not at any point / time, most likely.