Reasonable to expect a surgeon to do this?

[Beeturpot]

ex dh is a surgeon. He became a consultant after we separated. I did all drop offs etc and was called in all emergencies and if dc needed collecting etc. He said he couldn’t leave if in work as it wasn’t the sort of job that allowed it.

I have recently been promoted. I’m feeling resentful that I am doing all the running around for dc. They live with me. Is he right that this is too difficult for him? He claims to start work by 8am and often leaves late. I don’t know anyone in his area of work and i don’t know if he’s taking the piss. He does do his share at weekends. Just feeling fed up.

It’s not unreasonable At all for you to feel frustrated / taken for a ride etc because Dad isn’t taken on his parental responsibilities properly.

Methinks your ex is being deliberately difficult. He could sort something… if he wanted to!

I work in an acute hospital and dp is a GP. If your ex is on call or in theatre or literally in front of a patient then no he can't answer the phone or leave. But, as a predominantly female organisation the NHS is flexible with working patterns. It seems less common of surgeons than in medicine or gp but now that he's finished his training he absolutely could go down to say 3 or 4 days per week or request short days etc. I have many consultant colleagues who work part time as they have v young children. I have other consultant colleagues who start at 9 on their non ward week (they rotate so 1 week in 10) as they do the school drop off before work. I have many consultant colleagues who will always walk out the door promptly at 4pm but take their admin home with them to do on weekends or after bed times. I know couples who are both gp/consultants and have no local family so they take turns to take the nursery calls. Yes they do have to cancel some patients sometimes or do the pick up and then return to work when their partner gets home but they do it. It's just not the culture in surgery. I
As for regular pick ups, there's no excuse, working full time is not really compatible with young children.
It was hard won but my dp's manager actually rearranged his clinics so that unless he's on call he will deffo finish in time to get home for our dc's bed time. I nagged him for about 6 months just to ask, he just thought it wasn't possible. As soon as he asked they produced a new clinic build and it has changed our life. I'm not even exaggerating. Today he was home at half 5! But I can see that a surgeon may not have many or any part time or active parenting colleagues so he might not be able to see that it is actually possible.

This comes over as if you have no idea what his job entails.

I mean really- leaving midst an operation? Or not being able to do one?

It's par for the course. My DH is a lawyer, was a commercial barrister. No way could he have done non work stuff, particularly if he was in court. I never minded because the benefits arising from his professional life were significant.

Much of the time though these habits are made in the marriage.

all the women who promptly give up work or go PT and pick up all the childcare. The DH, and the DH’s job, know he won’t be taking time off for kids as his wife will do it.

then when the marriage breaks down, suddenly expect their ex to a) start earning enough to support two households so they can stay PT/SAHM, and b) sort childcare on their days.

dh isn’t a surgeon but his job was very resistant to him doing nursery pick ups, days off for childcare etc. they would ask why his wife couldn’t do it.

societally we still are fuelling the expectations that men focus on careers while women do the child raising.

if we want to change that, we need to be setting the expectations from the start. Don’t be facilitating his career at the expense of yours.

my friend is a surgeon, her dh also has a “big”
job. They both chose to reduce their hours and share child and financial responsibility. It seems mad to me that so many women don’t suggest that.

It's a problem for a surgeon.
BUT it is no longer YOUR problem.

I've been reading Wifedom by Anna Funder and it's a brilliant account of how men further their careers and smooth their lives by marrying women who take the burden of daily responsibility from them.

Highly recommended: it's a really interesting book in which the author starts to write a biography of George Orwell's wife, realises how he used her, borrowed her ideas and leaned heavily on her while he built his career, then wrote her out of his life and almost out of history. And while she's researching for the project, Anna Funder begins to think of her own 'equal' marriage where, strangely, she ends up doing most of the childcare, and where her husband's career proceeds smoothly while hers is fitted in between domestic tasks...

In one anecdote she uncovers, a disgraced posh bloke arriving in Australia without much money and no one to look after him is advised by an older man: 'Advertise for a maid, interview all the applicants, pick the prettiest one and then marry her — and then you have it all (sex and a housekeepr).' Anna Funder looks at her own life, full of domestic routine and pressure to cook and clean and get children to school etc and wonders if anything has changed since 1910...

I've worked in theatres and have to agree.theatre lists take weeks of planning, pre ops etc etc to get ready, pulling out of a day surgery is not going to be easy. But that being said emergencys happen and can't be planned for!

I’m married to an anaesthetist, and agree with a lot of this. There are some days where it would be impossible to leave, and some where colleagues could pick up the slack. And there have been days where it was impossible but a child was really ill and he has just left because there were colleagues who could help.

OP I think it’s suited your ex to allow you to be a default parent in all situations, but there will be non-clinical days in his job plan with some flexibility. Push back if you can, your work is important too.

This is why l point blank refused even after twins to give up work or go part time. We both reduced our hours slightly and used childcare. I haven’t been back long and have already been promoted. Even during my short maternity leave l refused to do everything, like l said to my husband there was no point in letting him get used to me doing everything as l was going back to work. Plus it was twins so l was a bit busy!

It’s not though. As above, my husband is a surgeon, I’m also a hospital doctor. Today we picked our children up from nursery together, on Thursday he’s WFH. Yes tomorrow he has an operating list so I’ll be the one to deal with any unexpected issues but Thursday it’s all him.

OP there’s a lot of us who are actually doctors telling you that YANBU in expecting him to have more flexibility than he’s letting on.

I think OP is getting a really hard time due to the way the question has been asked. Whilst a surgeon can't drop things and go to pick up kids what's stopping him from having other arrangements in place so it doesn't all fall on OP? I think you should ask Jim to rake more of a.role in arranging care OP - he doesn't ha e to do it himself if he's working.

Knowing a few surgeons, I’m pretty sure if they aren’t at work with surgery scheduled in then they have to be around/nearby on call in case of emergencies.
The wives of the surgeons I know don’t work, this appears to be so that they can raise the children/run around after them because surgeons can’t do so.

DH is a surgeon and has just walked in after leaving the house at 7.15 this morning. He can’t come out in the middle of the day when he is either operating or in clinics. However he does have a couple of sessions of SPA, for research/audit/training juniors/paperwork/CPD that he could leave or re book for another time, so its not true that your ex is unable to assist at all Mon-Fri. He just doesn’t want to.

I'm sure the OP isn't suggesting he walks out mid operation dripping in blood to join sports day. It's not that. He isn't in theatre at all times. But as consultant surgeon he is responsible for a lot that's happening and needs to be available so he kind of can't really leave his post. What he should be doing is meeting his commitments another way if not in person. This could be reduced hours or paid child care but either way taking some burden off OP. Has this ever been discussed?

I'm sure the OP isn't suggesting he walks out mid operation dripping in blood to join sports day. It's not that. He isn't in theatre at all times. But as consultant surgeon he is responsible for a lot that's happening and needs to be available so he kind of can't really leave his post. What he should be doing is meeting his commitments another way if not in person. This could be reduced hours or paid child care but either way taking some burden off OP. Has this ever been discussed?

This thread reminded me of an excellent quote I heard once but sadly I can't remember who said it. It was something like "Most men expect their wives to do all the childcare but their female colleagues to do none." Ain't that the truth...

Laughing out loud at posters who think NHS surgeons all earn mega bucks and can afford on-call Nannies and round-the-clock Childcare

You knew exactly what you were getting into when you married a surgeon, end of. It can’t be a shock to you that he isn’t able to drop everything for childcare, that’s simply just the price that you pay when you have kids with someone in a high flying, demanding career. Annoying and inconvenient but a fact of life. I say this as the wife of someone in an equally intense and all encompassing job. You either accept that realistically most of the childcare demands will fall on you as the other parent, you will rely heavily on family/nannies or you just don’t have kids with them. There is no other way around it.

What’s access and custody arrangements
who evers day it is it’s upto them to sort school run wether they do it themselves or pay someone

incase of emergency have plan b not everyone can come out of work
the fact he’s a surgeon is irrelevant wife was a minimum wage carer she couldn’t of left the person she was looking after alone she would have to wait for cover
I used to get the train to work timed it wrong it could take over 2 hours to get home then from station to emergency

Apparently this isn't acceptable either, according to several surgeons on this thread, who refuse to have back up plans for childcare or don't believe they exist.

I don’t think this is as black / white as others suggest. A surgeon will have a job plan which states broadly when they are operating each week (might be all day, might be part day - though part day can run over depending on their specialism). They will also have periods of semi-flexible time (usually 3 half days each week for development and admin). They may also participate on oncall rotas every few weeks. Regardless, it’s not your problem how they make this work. If you can, sit down and explain how you are feeling and ask them to consider options. Even surgeons can have some flex (or pay for proper care).

@welshweasel pretty much has it.

he needs to find and pay for support childcare when stuff happens on “his time”.

once you have an agreement in place just DO NOT be available and do not answer phone calls or emails. It’s his problem to resolve.
if he wants to be a dick with zero relationship with his kids it’s sad but it’s on him.

Not a surgeon, not married to one, but have had friends married to surgeons. Suppose it depends on his specialism, OP, but I think most surgeons have a day or two each week for paperwork and admin and following up on tests etc when it would be possible for them to be flexible. They're not all up to their elbows in peoples' innards all day, every day, or doing life-and-death ward rounds. They have clinics, sure, but those I knew of tended to be either morning or afternoon, one day a week.

I had one friend married to a senior neurosurgeon who, because his ops were long and exhausting, only used to be in theatre one day a week at most: sometimes seemed to go weeks at a time without operating.

More flexible than the average teacher, I'd say. How do teachers cope with emergency childcare?