Put your frikking babies to bed!

[Plsdiscuss]

I went for a very exclusive dinner Saturday night. I'd been looking forward to it for ages. £150 per head place, which is a huge splurge for us.

A family of 4 were seated next to us at their 7.45pm arrival. The (about) 3 yr old was 50% pacified. The (about) 9 month old in the high chair squawked for about 30 mins then fell asleep, looking very uncomfortable slumped over the side of the highchair.

If their noise wasn't bad enough, I could hear another child crying in another part of the restaurant for about an hour. That child's noise got louder as they were pushed in their pram crossing the restaurant to leave around 9pm. I commented and gestured to my partner. I wasn't as subtle as I thought in this, as the mum looked cross, waved her arm at me and mouthed fuck off.

When my now adult children were that small, they were in bed by 7.30, unless there was an event like a wedding. We got babysitters for evening meals out...very rare as very hard to get babysitters. I would never have dreamt of taking my under 5s to quiet intimate adult spots, then letting them cry for the majority. For 1, I wouldn't have enjoyed my food and 2, neither would those around me.

There's a reason deliveroo exists. Use it. And stop being so frikking selfish. Babies need sleep, not fine dining.

I think yabu. Parents have just as much right to take up space as non parents. Children have just as much right to take up space as adults do. If I go on holiday I really look forward to going for nice meals and will spend time researching where to go. No way would I leave ds with a stranger so yes he will come with me providing children are allowed. If you want a child free experience then go to an adults only restaurant or book a later dinner. Some people want to celebrate nice things with their children like birthdays or promotions etc etc. Why should they be resigned to do that at the likes of McDonald's for many years until their kids are old enough to be seen and not heard to appease people like you? Plus this is how dc learn to behave in those types of settings. I'd much rather bring ds somewhere decent than a restaurant where all the kids have their face in an ipad. (No judgement I get some kids need this to be occupied or parents need a time out, just not my preference). If ds fussed I take him out immediately until he settles but if he's babbling and chatting then I have no problem with that. I think drunken loud tables of adults can be much much worse but you never see them talked about in these types of threads.

Totally agree op, mine were in bed by 7pm happily at that age.

What some people don't seem to realise is that winging crying babies are not happy, because they are tired and need to be asleep.

Plus it is selfish to disturb others, fine in a family friendly cafe but not fine in a fine dining situation.

I agree. It's not fair on the children.

I’m with you.

If your children won't settle with a babysitter then you don't get to go out to a £150 a head fancy restaurant and disrupt everyone else's dinner with a toddler, it's that simple. You stay at home until either they're old enough to behave properly in that sort of setting, or until they will settle with a babysitter.

Them's the breaks of parenthood.

What exactly is entitled about taking children out for dinner in a restaurant that caters for children at a normal meal time?

I'll put my babies to bed when it works for us thanks. Mine are quite happy coming out for a late dinner.

I don't mind cring kids in say Pizza Express. I do think it's a bit weird when no one tries to settle them or take them outside. Pre 9pm leaving is fair game.

But I agree it's weird in a posh £xxx a head place. I'm surprised the restaurant doesn't have a kick kids out after say 8pm rule.

If your baby is crying and needs to be pushed around in the pram to settle, you take the pram out of the restaurant and push them up and down the street so you're not disturbing everyone else. We've all been there. The woman was being ridiculous not to leave.

The kids in the restaurant are not the problem. The parents not taking them out when they are unsettled is the problem (likewise parents who give their kids screens and no headphones 😠)

For most people there's a couple years where it just doesn't work to combine kids and fine dining. Easiest to teach them manners in more casual places, then move back to more expensive ones.

My bet is she had a kid who had previously been compliant, so they got over confident and it back fired.

This is the whole children can go anywhere they want, no it’s adults taking their kids out late in the evening to somewhere that adults go to enjoy themselves without their kids. It seems adults aren’t allowed child free time or child free places. If I am out without my kids then I don’t want to sit beside someone else’s Crying baby or grumpy overtired toddlers.
I have my own kids (4) and I work with kids. I love children but they don’t have to be everywhere like little cling ons. even if they sit quiet as mice / which isn’t normal. Allowing your children to ruin other people’s meals by acting up/crying etc isn’t fair on anyone and I can’t imagine it’s much fun for the parents. Same goes for bloody dogs, fine if it’s quiet and well behaved but sat out for lunch yesterday one was barking constantly and was doing my head in, we left sharp as nothing was done about it.

Like yourself maybe the parents were also looking forward to their meal out. Who are you to dictate that they should have used deliveroo instead and stayed at home.

We were recently in an amazing restaurant. We had been before and the food was amazing and the staff were great. This time however we were seated next to a table that were screaming and squawking, climbing and generally being disruptive. We didn’t react (although it was hard to hide it at times) but the waitress must have realised as she came and apologised and said that they would be leaving soon.

They were four adults. They should have been left at home with a babysitter.

Unnecessarily aggressive responses from both the other mother, and you.

Yep. Same with things like the cinema. Even if it’s a kids film you try to keep your offspring quiet and if you can’t, you leave.

It’s all very well wittering on about children having to learn to behave in these places but if they can’t keep quiet they’re not learning - they’re just practising the wrong behaviour.

£300 for a couple for a meal with wine is not easily done. Even at some Michelin star restaurants you’d have to be looking at flights of wine too to make it that expensive.

Not your bog standard Saturday night meal out but of course this is mumsnet…

It’s a common dilemma: prioritise the individual or prioritise the group?

Which is more important, the enjoyment of the majority or the convenience of the minority?

Individualism is the dominating ideology at the moment, “Be yourself,” and requires others to accept it, “Be kind.”

An interesting shift that being polite used to mean not inconveniencing others, but now it means accepting others inconveniencing yourself.

Exactly. It's shit but it is what it is.

We have the patented MN children who can sit through a lunch or early dinner without screens and eat nicely etc. But come that hour they're tired and cranky so we wouldn't bring them to a restaurant. We'd eat earlier/get a takeaway/very occasionally get a babysitter.

And on the odd occasion they're having a bad day and getting cranky at the table, we bring them out and tag team if necessary.

That's parenting. Pushing a crying baby around a restaurant isn't.

Generally I'm easy going about kids in restaurants...but when my youngest was six months old, we had our first night out. We went to a fairly pricey restaurant for dinner and cocktails....I arranged and paid for a babysitter. When we got there, a couple rocked up and were seated next to us with a baby who was a few months old. I asked to be moved. I am not paying for a meal and babysitter only to spend my evening sitting next to someone else's baby

For an exclusive venue then I can kind of see your point (amazed anyone would want to spend this much to feed their kids!), but I don't agree with you time wise. We often eat at this time with our two littlies when we are away for the weekend in say a wagamamas or a family pub. We put them to bed at 9 - 9.30, that's just our natural rhythm as a family, we are all natural night owls.

We do care about keeping them from disturbing others, but I have found groups of adults out for dinner pretty loud and obnoxious at times too, I think people in general can be. When we have been on holiday with a baby in a pushchair and it was our first we found they'd often sleep in the pushchair and we could enjoy a nice long leisurely dinner me and my husband in the evenings.

Anyone else just feel really sorry for the baby in the highchair? 😅

These threads are always full of "well my kids absolutely love going to seafood restaurants at 10pm," and "on the continent they only start eating at midnight," but it's irrelevant isn't it, because we're not on the continent and the kid was slumped over asleep in the highchair, so clearly wasn't enjoying his lobster thermidor.

I've taken my kids to restaurants loads, but it takes work, at least initially. Setting expectations, providing things to do, getting up every two minutes to cut up food and push chairs in, toilet trips, going outside to stretch legs, managing noise levels... the list goes on. If you can hit the sweet spot around 6-9 months where they might just go to sleep in a pram with some ear defenders on then you're laughing. Otherwise it's a long slog until you're out the other end and they'll happily sit with a sticker book 🤣

I agree with you OP and the fact the other woman told you to fuck off, I think she was probably at her wits end too. With places like Nandos or cheaper restaurants it’s not such a big deal, but at £150 a head it’s obvious many diners will be there for a special occasion. My DC are 5 and 8 now and I would take them somewhere like this for LUNCH, but not 7.45pm. It’s far too late.

How do people expect children to learn to behave in nice places if they take them to Toby freaking Carvery?

But in many cases they are not being taught how to behave, that’s the whole point. They’re just being allowed to disturb other diners hoping to have a quiet adult night out.

If the place allows kids, then no one has done anything wrong by taking them there. Maybe they’re usually fine and it was an “off” evening. We went to a well known fine dining place in London for a celebration last year and the table nezt
to us had 3 kids with them, probably 6, 3 and 1 by the looks of them and they were fantastically behaved.

Pretty easy in London.

£300 bill for a couple

£45 is service charge
£30 for two aperitifs
£40 for two starters
£80 for two mains
£60 bottle of wine
£30 for two desserts

Leaves £15 for coffees, sides etc.

You could spend that in my local pub.

In a ‘fine dining’ restaurant in London plus wine flight I’d expect to be spending closer to £250 a head now.

Prices have gone up a lot - I’ve been seeing starters get perilously close to £30 and mains £50 now, all over the place.