Put your frikking babies to bed!

[Plsdiscuss]

I went for a very exclusive dinner Saturday night. I'd been looking forward to it for ages. £150 per head place, which is a huge splurge for us.

A family of 4 were seated next to us at their 7.45pm arrival. The (about) 3 yr old was 50% pacified. The (about) 9 month old in the high chair squawked for about 30 mins then fell asleep, looking very uncomfortable slumped over the side of the highchair.

If their noise wasn't bad enough, I could hear another child crying in another part of the restaurant for about an hour. That child's noise got louder as they were pushed in their pram crossing the restaurant to leave around 9pm. I commented and gestured to my partner. I wasn't as subtle as I thought in this, as the mum looked cross, waved her arm at me and mouthed fuck off.

When my now adult children were that small, they were in bed by 7.30, unless there was an event like a wedding. We got babysitters for evening meals out...very rare as very hard to get babysitters. I would never have dreamt of taking my under 5s to quiet intimate adult spots, then letting them cry for the majority. For 1, I wouldn't have enjoyed my food and 2, neither would those around me.

There's a reason deliveroo exists. Use it. And stop being so frikking selfish. Babies need sleep, not fine dining.

But a child crying is not misbehaving, it’s literally a baby way to communicate .

Because usually all routine is abandoned on holiday…in my experience

I was busy Googling to find child free restaurants and came across an article by Zoe Williams, written nine months ago that pretty much sums up this entire thread.

'Perhaps the fiercest version of this row is played out not between parents and non-parents, but between sets of parents who are either at different points on the rearing curve or have very different attitudes about what “well-behaved” means, and whose responsibility it is to mind the baby while you smoke. When Mumsnet users have this debate, you can really hear how much people freight their parenting decisions with their own identity and self-fashioning. So the “Why can’t we be more like Italy, where everyone loves babies, and why shouldn’t children learn to love fine dining at a young age?” crowd are essentially flagging their own sophistication, while the “No three-year-old can be expected to behave properly in a pub/ I’ve paid good money for the luxury of not hearing any screaming” crowd are the voices of order and discipline – and these two camps will never see eye to eye. Ultimately, the pro-kids side is probably outnumbered by the legion who like children in principle, but feel they have done their time at the coalface.'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/01/i-dont-come-here-to-enjoy-other-peoples-children-should-pubs-and-restaurants-be-kid-free-zones

It’s obvious why people with screamy kids are going to be very unpopular on planes.

Lucky are those with a private Jet.

Read previous posts. Babie cannot control their crying, so either should not be there at evening expensive adult meal, or should be taken out if they cry.

My comment related to older children. They are totally tolerated in most other countries, but they are expected to behave and respect others.

A toddler running round is misbehaving though.
I remember when DS was 3 months old spending half of the meal , in harvester at 5.30 pm in the loo trying to calm him before he disturbed any of the other diners.

I'm so glad there are people recognising this is a British attitude problem.

Behaviour is a behaviour issue. Parenting is still parenting. You don't abdicate this at 2pm in Maccas anymore than 9pm in a nice restaurant. Why is there an acceptable difference? The kids shouldn't be twats in either scenario.

But that's different to the presence of children. There's too many Brits who actively hate their children and don't want to spend time with them. Or just shove a screen on them cos they don't want to parent.

But a child crying is not misbehaving, it’s literally a baby way to communicate .

It's probably saying I don't want to be in this restaurant!

"Rules" and "what is allowed" are basically the rock-bottom minimum standards in any situation. Decent people in our society are expected to go above and beyond mere "rules" and ensure that their behaviour doesn't encroach upon the enjoyment of others.

Anyone who is claiming that noisy children don't disrupt an adult fine dining establishment is being disingenuous to say the least. We all know that it does detract from the ambience and the experience.

Quiet people who are enjoying a nice meal are not doing anyone harm; the entitled ones are those who think they can create a disturbance with impunity.

Yes, sometimes parents have to forego certain holidays and certain forms of dining for a few years. That's the way it goes, to be a considerate member of society.

There's a reason private chefs exist. Book one to come to your lair next time.

Got to love MN. It’s got really shit on here lately, people just love to disagree and tell you your being unreasonable.

I agree with you OP. Young kids should not be in a posh restaurant. I grew up working in post restaurants (late 90’s early 2000’s) and it was rare anyone brought children unless they were staying in the hotel or it was a wedding. Occasionally we would get kids in for Sunday lunch which was fine but rarely for a evening meal. I wouldn’t take a child to such a place until they were at least 10 😬 and I wouldn’t want to eat in a place that has screaming children in it when I’m paying £150 a head.

Babies cry. But they respond to parenting too. If they are communicating, you communicate back. You don't just leave them bloody screaming.

You might do if you know your child well enough to know it’s a 5 m cry before he falls asleep .

I’m in the order and discipline camp plus when did kids start to have the same rights as adults and when did adults start to become so aggressive about these new rights.

I think British people are quite old fashioned with kids bedtimes generally - not unusual at all in France/Spain/Portugal to see young kids out eating after their British cousins have gone to bed.

i think you're unreasonable to say that they should have been in bed BUT it's certainly not what what I would expect in a £150 per head restaurant, even if kids were present I'd expect them to be immaculately behaved (which I have seen in posh restaurants before, the type where I def would not take my own!) I'd be speaking to the manager tbh saying I hadn't enjoyed the experience but wouldn't expect money back. I'd hope they'd consider making it adults only in future though. Or having a "family section" if that really is part of their demographic.

Well, ‘my love’, don’t you think Mumsnet is probably not the place for you? And especially this thread, if you dislike children enough to purposely stay away from them?
From my experience of travelling in the Caribbean, it’s very child friendly part of the world, so presumably you’re in a resort surrounded by the other adult Brits who also booked a package deal with Tui. Not actually experiencing the Caribbean.

Where has this idea come from that restaurants on the continent are full of screaming children and no one cares about it?

Honestly, I've eaten in more than my fair share of foreign restaurants and, while there may well be more children, the point is that the screaming levels are just not as high. If children are being antisocial they are taken outside.

People complaining that your uncontrolled child is ruining their night out are not the 'wankers' in this situation.

Exactly but you mustn’t tut-tut or you’ll get your head kicked in

As a parent this would not be enjoyable to me, unless I was in a pub with a garden and she could play or whatever, or pizza express where it's a bit of a free for all with kids and only if I needed to because it was a birthday or something. But tbh I wouldn't take her to a posh adult place anytime of day because that would be time for me to enjoy a nice adult meal out with my partner or friends etc.
I think breakfasts out with kids should become more popular, kids are usually on much better form at 9am than 7pm 🤣

The OP is screeching about banning children. The children are not the problem.

Routine might be, but manners shouldn't be.

It makes no difference to the other customers whose meals are ruined whether the family with the baby are on holiday or not.

Since having children we just don't holiday in the same way we used to before. We now stay in self catering accommodation rather than hotels and alternate between cooking at home/takeaway and eating out at lunchtime or early in the evening, like 6pm. I'm currently planning our summer holiday and have specifically chosen places to stay where we can have a lovely dinner downstairs or some drinks on the terrace after getting back from an early dinner, while the kids are asleep upstairs.

Is that the modern day version of leaving your kids outside the pub with a bag of crispa and a Panda Pop 😂

OP, YANBU.
Too late for most babies and toddlers to be out at that time, they're grumpy little sods who need their bed then!

This.

When I was a child - and a much older one at that - my first trip to a "proper grown up restaurant" was a Very Big Deal Indeed and my behaviour was expected to be absolutely impeccable. I still remember how special it was now and I'm well into my 50s.

Restaurants - I'm talking about ones aimed at grown-ups, not a Harvester - were simply not somewhere that young children went, and I don't think the leniency we see nowadays is anything even vaguely resembling progress.

I grew up in different countries and I often visit Spain , Portugal and Italy and kids there go everywhere. But yes it’s cultural behaviour too , like most places don’t do kids meals or if they do it’s the same as the adults but half the size , they don’t grow up on chicken nuggets and fish fingers , they know how to behave because they have all been going out since they where infants .
This being said nobody would mind a crying baby or would comment on it like the op did .