Put your frikking babies to bed!

[Plsdiscuss]

I went for a very exclusive dinner Saturday night. I'd been looking forward to it for ages. £150 per head place, which is a huge splurge for us.

A family of 4 were seated next to us at their 7.45pm arrival. The (about) 3 yr old was 50% pacified. The (about) 9 month old in the high chair squawked for about 30 mins then fell asleep, looking very uncomfortable slumped over the side of the highchair.

If their noise wasn't bad enough, I could hear another child crying in another part of the restaurant for about an hour. That child's noise got louder as they were pushed in their pram crossing the restaurant to leave around 9pm. I commented and gestured to my partner. I wasn't as subtle as I thought in this, as the mum looked cross, waved her arm at me and mouthed fuck off.

When my now adult children were that small, they were in bed by 7.30, unless there was an event like a wedding. We got babysitters for evening meals out...very rare as very hard to get babysitters. I would never have dreamt of taking my under 5s to quiet intimate adult spots, then letting them cry for the majority. For 1, I wouldn't have enjoyed my food and 2, neither would those around me.

There's a reason deliveroo exists. Use it. And stop being so frikking selfish. Babies need sleep, not fine dining.

I wouldn't want this either; and I know of people whose circumstances mean that being presented with a baby would be extremely upsetting.

I see this all the time and it’s simply not acceptable. Totally agree that kids need to learn how to dine in restaurants and be part of family gatherings etc etc but all too often the kids are obviously bored and tired while the parents focus on throwing as much wine down their necks as they can whilst seemingly not caring about their children nor other diners who have to endure crying, running around or the din from non-silent iPads. If you can afford £150 a head then you can afford a baby sitter. If you want to go out with small children then go somewhere that will cater for them, which is typically not going to be fine dining, or be prepared to leave when things kick off.

I wouldn't/haven't done it with my kids, but the more threads I read like this the more I think fuck it, maybe I will!!

Children are a part of society and they are allowed to exist in it. They have just as much right to go to that restaurant as anyone else.

If you go out in public you should expect members of the public to be there. And you can't decide which members of the public they are.

I've had many an occasion spoilt by noisy and/or rude people before, but that's the risk you take when you go to public places.

Given so many kids are plonked on devices and ignored by their parents in restaurants, I don't think it's that they enjoy spending time with them.

Maybe they can't get/can't afford a babysitter?

I haven't read all the responses, just you posts. I think there are several reasons for this as there is generally a lot less consideration for others these days.

The main point though is that when you were raising your children, there is every chance that you could get a teenage (14 or 15) child of a friend to babysit. These days, it seems that many parents think their 14 or 15 year old children need babysitters and it all goes wrong from there.

Who are these people saying ' check if restaurants are adult only'. Are there any such places?!
Surely it works on a social contract where people make judgements about whether their children are old enough to cope with a restaurant and what sort of eating out place is most suitable for them, given their stage of development?

You never see children in restaurants at that time where I live. YANBU. You might see a tiny baby fast asleep in pram or car seat (less than 4 months). It's not appropriate for many reasons. We don't respect the health benefits of sleep enough - as shown by the 25% of people who think YABU.

That would require some common sense though. I don't think common sense is that common anymore.

Does sound a bit judgemental.

When my eldest was 1 they slept about 11 hrs at night (from 9/9.30pm - 8am… up, breakfast and in nursery for 9ish)

This later bedtime was preferable because otherwise we would have had a child up from 5.30/6am - we didn’t want this.

Of course we had to deal with all the judgemental Julies who had LO in bed for 6.30/7pm… but yet complained about being woken at 5am 🤷‍♀️

I never used maternity leave as an excuse to try out fine dining, but I know of a few couples who relished taking baby out and trying all the best restaurants (before invariably their dining experiences would become dominated by pizza express).

If you want an adult only restaurant experience then you need to check their policy on children (kicking out time).

Even in the Toby Carvery I'd be annoyed at a baby crying for an hour at that time.

I am ignoring the 'mine is 3 months old and sleeps'. Small babies are pretty portable and can happily sleep in a pram. But try entertaining your one year old in the same way.

And if your child cries for more than a couple of minutes, you go outside or into the lobby area.

You can sneer at the Toby carvery but it's still a treat to many people and - certainly into the evening - people deserve to enjoy it in a relatively pleasant atmosphere. No not total silence but lengthy crying, screeching or running about isn't acceptable.

I once got annoyed in a Haven restaurant of all places. Of course you expect kids but why let them scream on the floor when there's a soft play and lots of flashy machines literally outside the door you can distract them with (and you are not alone). The older kids then proceeded to swing from our table, squeeze behind us and run around.

It may not be fine dining but it was a rare treat for us and I don't expect it to be ruined because other people can't be arsed to parent properly - or even ignore them in a more appropriate setting a few feet away.

I don't think most people get annoyed by upset children when someone attempts to deal with it appropriately or I the right setting.

If I'd paid that price I'd expect an appropriate ambience and screaming kids is no more appropriate that loud dance music or strobe lighting would be.

If there were multiple children there, it is likely a family restaurant. Choose adults only next time. If my DC interuppted other diners I would remove them, but if the mother heard you then other diners did too so you were likely just as disruptive. Maybe stick to Toby Carvery until you learn to behave appropriately in public. Or order deliveroo.

Yep totally agree, late dinners in restaurants should be adults only.

Is there an element of being annoyed these parents could afford to bring their children to a restaurant that is £150 a head?

Who judges what is a "posh" or upscale restaurant though? I don't really agree with people saying parents shouldn't take young children to these places because I think it's a bit crass to draw this distinction tbh. For some people, Pizza Express or a nice pub lunch might be a huge extravagance, especially at the moment. They don't deserve to have their meal spoiled by inconsiderate fellow diners, just because that's what they can afford. For others, dinner at the Ivy or more expensive places might be a frequent occurrence and not really a treat. Are these people more deserving of a peaceful dining experience than the first group? Not really imo.

The real issue is that everyone needs to behave with consideration towards others in public spaces, both adults and children included.

Surely if there is market demand, restaurants will start to offer this.

With the risk of sounding like my gran, people used to follow these unwritten social rules but don’t any more.

Witness all the “I want to enjoy my life and kids will fit in with me” or “I enjoy taking my kids places” responses above. Not to mention the “my kids always behave perfectly” responses .

So unfortunately, restaurants increasingly have to make explicit rules.

Yep.

There's no 'should' when it comes to private businesses catering for your preferences. If somewhere in the sector deems your requirements sufficiently attractive, they'll meet them. If not then they won't.

Did you ask to be moved to another table?

100% agree, and I have a 1 and a 3 year old. We take them to pizza express or similar at 5:30. Not to Nobu at 7:30! It's not good for the kids and it's not good for anyone else either.

I can only go on my personal preferences. My kids go to bed at 7pm (the younger one) and 8pm (the slightly older one.) If I were to go to a high-end restaurant in the evening, for a 7.30ish sitting, they would not be coming with me. Firstly, it's not fair on them. The little one needs to go to bed when he does - he's tired and appreciates a bedtime routine. Same for the older one - he wouldn't actually want to go to a restaurant at that time, as he's ready for down time and bed. Secondly, it's not fair on the other diners. When babies/children get overtired and overwhelmed, they play up and scream. This is a form of communication - they are telling you how they feel. Why would you put your needs above theirs in this respect? How would you even begin to relax and enjoy your dinner? Surely better for all involved if the children don't attend.

Thirdly - I do worry - and care - about impacting other diners. It's just not ok to create a situation as a parent where your kids screeches for an hour in a high-end restaurant. You need to either take evasive action (don't bring them and if this means you not going yourself then sorry but so be it.) OR - you control the situation by leaving and calming your kid. It is totally inappropriate to allow that level of disruption to go on, and do nothing to manage it. I also feel sorry for the baby who fell asleep over the highchair. She/he should have been in bed.

It's about being responsible at the end of the day. I don't mind kids in restaurants, and take mine for lunch or sometimes an early meal in pizza express or such like, but no way would I take them, as small as they are, to a high-end restaurant later on in the evening. It's not fair on them, on the other diners, on me.

I love how MN is up in arms about dogs in dog friendly cafes but the minute anybody says that squawking children fucked their evening meal it's completely different because "children are allowed there".

I'd pay double to eat somewhere that wasn't an evening creche for grizzling children tbh.

Who are these people saying ' check if restaurants are adult only'. Are there any such places?!

Yes. I can think of one Michelin starred restaurant that says “children are welcome at lunchtime and for reservations up to 6.30”. And the central All Bar Ones often say kids allowed only up to 6pm.

If they’re well behaved it will be because they’re used to it and they’re accepted by society in these places from day one. They’ve had plenty of experience because it’s just so normal there for children to be out in public. But I bet people are more tolerant of children anyway.

Over here it’s almost like it’s a taboo to take your kids in to a restaurant or a cafe. So that’s why some people’s ears instantly prick up when a family enters the room.

And I raise my glass to the OP.

Allowing your child to ruin a night out for others is not OK.

@UnderMyUmbrellaEllaEllaEllaEllaElla but OP professes she enjoyed the meal!