Is anyone vulnerable still isolating? Covid

[KindredPoodle]

My father was told to isolate years ago during the first wave of covid, because some immune suppressant medication he had to take every few years made him temporarily clinically vulnerable.

Years later, he is still following this advice and claims that he still had to isolate for safety . He sees nobody, insists on washing the food delivery in bleach solution, quarantines the post and doesn’t allow my mum to go into anyone’s houses or get close to them. It suits him because he’s naturally antisocial and quite controlling, but it’s destroying her life.

So my question is, is ANYONE else who was told to isolate (back when covid was a big scary unknown threat, and we had no vaccines or knowledge of how to treat it) still isolating? My sense is that very few are, and my dad is doing it out of some combination of fear, mental health and habit

He’s abusing your poor mum

It’s bonkers really. Absolutely hardly anyone tests for covid now. Someone said to me the other day that covid seems to have gone away. No it hasn’t. It’s just that people are no longer testing because they have to pay. I’ve had really bad colds twice in the last year. Both times I tested for covid, and both times positive (tested because I see mother twice a week who has a heart condition and covid would finish her off). I feel sorry for people who are vulnerable and that it could be very serious if they catch it, because every time they leave the house they risk coming into contact with someone who has it.

I'm still masking when indoors (buses, trains, office, cinema, theatre) but will eat at outdoor tables in restaurants. Numbers are fairly low in England at the moment but two of my friends (married couple) currently have Covid so it's still around and airborne (not sure bleaching surfaces helps that much, refreshing the air probably more effective).

I'm fully vaccinated (not eligible for current programme so will have to get it privately), had Covid once and keen* not to have it again though I don't seem to have any lingering effects.

Your dad may be eligible for the free NHS Spring Vaccination
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/covid-19/covid-19-vaccination/getting-a-covid-19-vaccine/

If not Boots is offering a private service https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/covid-19-information-products-and-testing/private-covid-vaccination as is PharmaDoctor https://pharmadoctor.co.uk/patient/service/covid-vaccination

Guide price for PharmaDoctor is
Comirnaty Omicron XBB.1.5 (Pfizer/BioNTech) - £75-£85
Nuvaxovid XBB.1.5 (Novavax) - £45-£55

Boots COVID-19 Vaccination Service costs £98.95 - I think they're just offering Comirnaty.

Jo
*I live alone which makes being ill an extra 'meh' hassle.

Hi, my mum was on the original shielding and it was really strict: at one point the official advice was don't even share a bed with your dh, she was added automatically to priority lists for home delivery, etc.

She's OK now but still has imuno compromise - issues. She is sensible, like some people have said: she helps in the kitchen at big children's events, rather than in there with them, she's only just gone on a plane again, she's gone out to cafés for lunch but avoided busy dinner services, she sits a little separate at choir, etc. But she still goes!

@WhereIsSpringtime ‘The financial press seems to think current policy is unsustainable and I tend to agree.‘

Interesting, which press is that? Do you have links to articles? Are they arguing that we should go back to asking people to isolate? So many people work hybrid now that I don’t really understand why a requirement at least not to come into the office when ill would be a big deal. It just seems like common sense tbh.

Which is fine if you work in an office ,but you can t work from home if you are supermarket, worker ,teacher ,nurse ,police officer ,work in ware House etc etc.

Yeah I was talking about office jobs where there is already a wfh component.

www.ft.com/content/bb09a03d-4a87-4cea-ae87-986769fd4680

I was CEV at the time albeit didn't ever properly shield. I'm now more CEV (if that's possible) due to changes in meds and have a terrible immune system but I live my life entirely as usual. I go out to work, get public transport, have a festering germ-filled 4 year old.

I am on the cev list and was shielding ; I have had every vaccine offered; and as I am cev and in Scotland I qualify for free test kits and when I did get Covid, I got the anti-virals within 12 hours of reporting my test. ( not sure if that is available to your dad?)
Covid was rough, I could not lift my head off the pillow until the drugs kicked in, but they did, and I recovered. No way am I restricting my life, although I would say I am probably more conscious of hygiene - wash my poor eczema prone hands more than I should..

I would try to get your DM to talk to her GP and get advice there, and if it differs from your dad’s version, ensure the gp knows that.

@KindredPoodle if it's just a body of evidence you want, I can add to PPs. DH had a kidney transplant at the back end of Covid, so is now on lifetime immunosuppressants and anti-rejection drugs. He no longer masks or isolates himself, let alone asking me to!

He does have a vaccine booster every time they come up and are offered, but beyond that he is working, playing sport and going to gigs, theatre etc. He (and his consultant fwiw) feel that if he's just going to shut himself away for the rest of his life, it would be a bit of a waste of some grieving family's incredibly generous gift.

I work for the NHS

We don't test patients or ourselves for covid and haven't done for a very long time.

If there was still a serious risk, our own isolating colleagues would still be off.

There will always be some who will still succumb to covid... but people also still die of other infections that equally wouldn't affect others.

My DH and I are both clinically vulnerable and we were told to isolate in 2020. We are definitely no longer isolating* and were never officially told to stop isolating but we realised life was getting back to normal.

Our shopping is delivered but that’s only because I hate going to supermarkets. I’ve never washed my shopping but I do wash my hands after putting it away. I don’t use public transport at all but that’s partly to do with finding taxis easier to use with a wheelchair and partly to avoid germs. We avoid crowds when we go out so meals out are always at quiet times. We go away during term time and deliberately choose quiet locations.

*I’m due to have minor surgery in a few days time, so I’m currently isolating at home (and very bored!), but this is only because of my operation.

@KindredPoodle how do your parents manage with medical appointments or seeing a dentist etc?

That’s somewhat naive given that at some point during a slightly concerning wave last year the WHO recommended that masking should go back to being mandatory in healthcare settings and the U.K. ignored it.

We’ve basically got to the point that the DoH and NHSEngland don’t care about the health of their staff or patients if ur means contradicting the lie that Covid is just a cold.

The extent that the OPs Dad has gone to is unnecessary but that doesn’t mean that Covid isn’t still potentially risky.

I do not believe for one second that your dad's doctor has told him he still needs to isolate. It's not true. Cancer patients on chemo aren't isolating, people who've just had bone marrow transplants aren't isolating, staff working with severely immunocompromised don't routinely test anymore. He's not telling your mum the truth.

I'm sorry this is happening in your family - I know someone who did similar, insisting his partner and children isolated if they left the house, made them test every day, clean shopping in bleach - he lost them all, his wife left him and his DC left home prematurely and don't see him.

I do have clients who are still refusing to leave the home - but it's people with learning disabilities who really have struggled with the whole move from "deadly virus out there, you need to stay in your room at home" to "bubbles" to "it's OK now" rhetoric and haven't had their routines maintained throughout - so getting back to that kind of level of interaction is proving incredibly hard for them and there are some we're only just getting to the level of walking to the corner shop now.

Care homes are pretty much back to normal - they were still cancelling visitors for a while longer than the rest of the world when in an outbreak, but now they've relaxed a lot... the day centres went back into masks for staff and visitors for brief periods in Dec/Jan but that was because they were trying to keep their remaining staff in work as various lurgies swept through the staffroom.

I tend to reschedule visits if I'm unwell and WFH - or at least offer clients the option of it, but that's ONLY because I have the flexibility to be able to do that. Basically that's our NHS trust's line now - don't be an unnecessary twat, put a mask on if you have to be in work while unwell, and you're on your own if you're wanting lateral flow tests. Would be lovely for the terrified if we could isolate and have time off work without causing bother with our sick records for a test - but sadly and utterly selfishly - people have mortgages to pay.

can’t 100% guarantee he would be fine if he got any infections.

that’s true for all of us surely. and as for the “do you want me to die” argument we’ll we’re all going to die. I’d rather we enjoy the time we have left.

sadly I think that it will be very difficult to talk your dad round. Your DM however is another matter. It’s not normal no and she has a right to a life. Will she leave him? I know that’s a sad solution that presumably no one wants.

Crickey OP we shielded through 2020 and 2021 and also 2022 because family member was on chemo but we stopped January 2023, we are a bit cautious with large groups in places like village halls. Relative is still on chemo but we get out and about as much as we can and cleaning the shopping stopped a long long time ago.

@KindredPoodle I would write to your father's GP explaining what he is doing still. How it affects your mum. That letter will be stored on the system. They will consider this information carefully. You won't be the first person to raise this issue.

It does seem extreme OP, but different people have different risk profiles and attitudes to risk. Some will have no qualms about not postponing any plans if contagious for example (have assessed risk as just a cold/each out for themselves which is other extreme). Current policy is also extreme, which makes it harder for those where covid poses a much larger risk. Going into hospital as a reintroduction to normality might not be the answer - 1/10 of hospital-acquired infections end in death. Would he be open to visitors if they mask or test beforehand for example to reduce risk if he's very at risk?

In case it helps, I was told to shield for a combination of severe asthma and a medication that can lower immunity. This was very early in lockdowns. They clarified after a few weeks/months that it wasn’t necessary but I should just be cautious. I followed the same rules as everyone else and was fully back to normal at the same time as everyone else.

DM was told to shield for COPD and cancer. I think she got a letter in 2022 saying she was no longer advised to. She’s now back to enjoying trips to Majorca and volunteering in a community centre. She’s in her 80s.

DFIL was told to shield during certain stages of his cancer treatment. When getting certain drugs (not sure if the chemo or something else). But it was only ever for a few weeks at a time and he was VERY keen to see people afterwards. He’s late 70s.

All 3 of us have had Covid, more than once each, with no complications.

For many, especially the elderly, lockdowns made them lose confidence in getting back to normal.

Have a few customers who I chat to, used to take their elderly parent (always just the one as other parent died or divorced) shopping pre covid. I don’t ask them how their parents are, only if customers bring up the subject. They say their parent hardly go out now. These customers’ parents must be over 85 now. Customers said they have tried to convince their parents that it’s ok to go outside, visit shops, meet up with people again. But it’s a losing battle and some don’t even mention it. My parents have a friend who still has her 94 year old mother. She doesn’t even talk about things like days out, holidays and other back to normal stuff as the mother says “you shouldn’t be doing that”

Problem is with your mum is she is from the generation that their husbands made decisions over them for things like money. Am I guessing right that your mother doesn’t drive? Again another feature from that generation. Most of the time, the husband dies before the wife (husbands are usually older and life expectancy is 4 years longer for a woman) and for those women whose husbands controlled everything like money etc - many are clueless. A great aunt didn’t even know which bank her husband was with!

I didn’t have a shielding letter but my employer advised me to stay away from work til mid July 2020 as moderately asthmatic. Was paid fully that time and required to use 2 weeks of holiday- which I had those two weeks in that time, booked off 6-8 months before.

Had Covid a few days before the first lockdown. Couldn’t get tested as postal kits were out of stock every time I went on the website. Plus the two test centres were about 40 and 45 miles away - in different directions. I struggled to hold a book when reading- so driving was out of the question. Did have antibodies test in the summer and it was confirmed I had COVID.

Not sure why you have targeted me when others have posted. Covid is now in the same category as other airborne viruses and patients who are admitted are treated with the same precautions.

For most it is now a minor illness but there are some who will still succumb..... just like some do with Flu.

My partner's father has a blood cancer he is on oral chemotherapy for. He did isolate for much longer than anyone else, as nobody could 100% tell him he'd be fine if he caught Covid, and tbh he absolutely loved having no social obligations. But in his case I'm afraid I think the way he went about it was very obviously due to his lifelong health anxiety. He has definitely moved on, partly because he adores his wife and knew dhe was missing out, and now socialises to a limited extent and goes to village events etc. He also will go to hospital at the slightest twitch - I think he's been in A&E four times this year already - which is about the most unhealthy place to be, which to me demonstrates it's about easing his anxiety rather than warding off infections.

The simplest thing I would do is just to start naming the issue. 'Oh yes, you're still having to do that because of dad's anxiety' rather than 'because of dad's clinical vulnerability'. Just a factual approach to what she's actually dealing with.