Is anyone vulnerable still isolating? Covid

[KindredPoodle]

My father was told to isolate years ago during the first wave of covid, because some immune suppressant medication he had to take every few years made him temporarily clinically vulnerable.

Years later, he is still following this advice and claims that he still had to isolate for safety . He sees nobody, insists on washing the food delivery in bleach solution, quarantines the post and doesn’t allow my mum to go into anyone’s houses or get close to them. It suits him because he’s naturally antisocial and quite controlling, but it’s destroying her life.

So my question is, is ANYONE else who was told to isolate (back when covid was a big scary unknown threat, and we had no vaccines or knowledge of how to treat it) still isolating? My sense is that very few are, and my dad is doing it out of some combination of fear, mental health and habit

Just to add to the list of examples for your Mum. My brother in law is seventy and has amyloidosis. He receives experimental chemotherapy and drug treatment at a London hospital that provides free travel and accommodation for him from the small rural county we live in,as what he has is both unusual and serious and he is part of a research project.

He had all the shielding letters, but was pretty much the opposite of your father in terms of behaviour. We visited him in the garden during the height of Covid, and he sat in the conservatory while his grandchildren visited the rest of the house, but as soon as he could he was out and about ( he can drive but only walk a few paces) and seeing his family. He has had Covid now, yes it took him a long time to recover, but he didn't need to be hospitalised , and he is now leading as much of a normal life as he can within the limits of the disease he has.

KindredPoodle · Today 15:35
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With respect and thanks to all, I didn’t really start this thread to workshop a solution, we have a possible solution and are trying to put it into action. I started it to get lots of examples of people who were once told to isolate but have since been told they can stop, or who have chosen to stop. So I can show my mum and she can realise how extreme dad’s behaviour is. She has very little context so half believes him”

Honestly, I don’t think showing your mum examples of what other vulnerable people are doing will change her view because she’s effectively been brainwashed.

She needs to hear it from the horse’s mouth. The GP needs to tell her and your dad, ideally together, that he does not need to shield.

I would write to the GP, tell them the situation and try to arrange an home visit.

I’m sure you father has had the letter to say shielding has ended.

It's not selfishness. People can't afford to stay home, the need to work and live. For many of us flu is just as bad and many people have always gone out and about, to work and so on with the flu are other various viruses. I've had covid twice, been vaccinated, it makes me really sick for a long time. Its shit and unfair, but that doesn't mean people are selfish to go on living their lives.

I have a friend who is vulnerable due to several chronic health conditions, she homeschools on her doctor's advice and they don't go busy places but otherwise lives a fairly normal life now. Home schooling wouldn't suit my kids like it does hers so I remain exposed to all the bugs and suffer the consequences.

My friend was shielding during covid. Her current advice for her doctor is to homeschool and avoid busy places, otherwise they live a fairly normal life. She see's friends and kids homeschooling friends regularly, but everyone knows she needs to stay away if anyone's symptomatic and it's a small regular group. She's not shielding anymore.

It suits him because he’s naturally antisocial and quite controlling

This

He’s using something that was legitimate during the pandemic to control people in his environment. Your mum has a choice, one that only she can make. Your father is unlikely to change and you can’t rescue her.

Your father is stuck in his own ways and too stubborn to change. I bet he was one of the last (or still reluctant) to have a debit card. Plus doesn’t use computers or smartphones.

Your mother needs to leave him as he’s a control freak and with behaviour which was deemed reasonable 4 years ago is now classed as bullying.

@EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness
It's not selfishness. People can't afford to stay home, the need to work and live. For many of us flu is just as bad and many people have always gone out and about, to work and so on with the flu are other various viruses. I've had covid twice, been vaccinated, it makes me really sick for a long time. Its shit and unfair, but that doesn't mean people are selfish to go on living their lives.

I have to disagree. It is their selfishness that is stopping me and others getting on with OUR lives. Or don't we matter?

I don’t understand why you think it’s selfish about Covid but not other viruses and bacteria. They were around before. It’s not simply about testing, as you said. Did you not go out and about before? People carried all sorts and went to work unwell. If anything, I would say people definitely are more cautious with coughs, colds and similar than before. I actually feel safer. At least with covid there are vaccines and antivirals!

@TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology
I don’t understand why you think it’s selfish about Covid but not other viruses and bacteria.

Because the consultants aren't as concerned about those. Covid is different, in case you hadn't noticed.

Did you not go out and about before?

Yes. Of course I did.

At least with covid there are vaccines and antivirals!

I'm not sure why you think you know better than the medics.

The idea clinically vulnerable are only concerned about covid is misinformation. We are concerned about the littlest snuffle which can become something much worse for us.

The selfishness is in non vulnerable people’s attitude towards the vulnerable - that it is solely our responsibility to keep ourselves safe when people aren’t careful about their social behaviours when they are unwell because it’s only a minor thing to them.

When we do try to keep ourselves safe we’re ridiculed.

No need to be snippy, I was asking because I genuinely have never come across this before. I haven’t really had any clear answers and I’m curious for my own wellbeing.

I say this as someone who has always had to be cautious about viral and bacterial infections. I genuinely don’t understand what makes Covid different. I totally understand when it was poorly understood, no treatments and no vaccines. I would like to understand what makes Covid different to other viruses, not that I would shield again but I would consider my risks.

I am at the highest level of risk from viruses and bacteria. I always have been.

I do not expect random strangers and people in society to risk their jobs and their homes for me. A waitress with a cold or a supermarket worker with a cough is absolutely a risk to me. It was before Covid. I would expect a friend to not come to my home with a cold or cough and indeed, they do not. I would not expect a stranger to stop living their very usual lives because a minute portion of society needs to shield.

It's shit being sick, it's shit having limits and being afraid things other people shrug off will severely compromise your whole life. Yeah its shit. Ive been living like this for a very long time, pre covid. No I do not think everyone should go on testing for covid and taking time off they're no longer allowed to take or be paid for, for strangers. No I don't think people should miss work, or school, struggle to pay bills, spend money testing for covid.

I test and I stay home and keep my kids home if we're sick. That's a personal choice and one I can afford to make because Im too sick to work anyway. I know someone vulnerable, I would never risk her health, personal is different. I'm a realist, I am able to make these choices testing and isolating
because of my personal circumstances, many people arent. When the government withdrew support for testing and isolating they made them uneconomic. Un-symptomic means expected to work. There are all sorts of battles going on out there in people lives that you have no idea of. What you're wanting is the level of support and care given to family and friends, not complete strangers.

Don't you think people's livelihoods matter ,or do you think that people on low/minimum wages should just suck it up to protect you ?
I mean there is always food banks right?
It's the height of selfishness to go out and work to provide for your family rather than worrying about the health of a random stranger
I guess it's OK for you as your financially stable and are retired and your family can work at home if need be and yet yoyr calling others selfish.
You do realise that some of the people you think are selfish will also be clinically vulnerable ?
Unfortunately they don't have the luxury of working from home

I know you've got a proposed solution, but I would propose, if applicable, going hard on the anti-virals route. If DPs put an anti-virals access plan in place with his GP that would be a solid change in circumstances and risk which would justify DF changing his stance on shielding without having to back down or admit he's been wrong. It would also be a genuine safeguard.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/covid-19/treatments-for-covid-19/#:~:text=The%20treatments%20available%20for%20people,molnupiravir%20(Lagevrio)

The only person I hear of isolating is my brother's neighbour who is doing research on the effects of COVID 19 on humans! They live in a city and my brother says they absolutely will not go to restaurants and pubs at all. They eased slightly recently when they invited my brother and his wife round for dinner. I asked my brother what the research is that makes her so cagey about going back into real world but he says she doesn't divulge the info.

My two uncles who have MS, a family friend who has a hole in his heart and a few others I know with medical issues are all back to normality

My best friend is CEV, a common cold could have hospitalise her even before Covid was a thing. Even so, after the first couple of months of Covid, she lifted her own restrictions.

She was back to running huge marathons, doing triathlons, going to gigs etc as soon as events restarted in 2021. She has always said she would rather risk getting ill and dying, than live a shielded life, as a shielded life isn't living.

The NHS Doctor has told her not to send her child to school?

By that logic it's very selfish of you to live in a home while there are homeless people on the streets. It's very selfish of you to use any products with latex in in case someone somewhere has a latex allergy. It's very selfish of you to drive a car in case you have a heart attack behind the wheel and cause an accident. Etcetera, etcetera.

Many employers like mine have sickness policies where have three separate periods of sickness or hit a certain % you go through disciplinary. Covid didn’t count towards this for just over two years. Plus many other employers followed this too. Employees don’t like the stress of going through disciplinary- hence why get staff coming into work with colds.

Being asthmatic which has worsened since having Covid twice (March 2020 and July 2022) had at least three periods of sickness from asthma. One of them was an asthma attack which was caused by work being done around us. The dust from sawn MDF, wood plus fumes from glue used to replace flooring in offices set it off. In the past, stores were closed for 5-12 days, depending on size of store. It’s money before employees’ H&S! Because the work is done around us, it took just over a month. Even a few customers struggled with breathing. It’s now on my records that if anything similar happens in regards to work done by contractors- I should not be working in the store. Depending on how long the work takes to do, either have days off or work at another store (work will pay for fuel).

Only times I call in sick with colds are those days where constantly sneezing, blowing nose or coughing. As can’t do much.

The irony on this is selfish can work both ways. You have an issue with people being selfish by not isolating as it is affecting your life. By wanting them to isolating for you, you also are affecting their lives for your benefit. Surely a middle ground, a sensible compromise is better for all involved.

The irony on this is selfish can work both ways. You have an issue with people being selfish by not isolating as it is affecting your life. By wanting them to isolating for you, you also are affecting their lives for your benefit. Surely a middle ground, a sensible compromise is better for all involved.

The compromise it to go sick and claim sick pay. If you have flu or measles or a really bad cold you stay off work. The same should apply with Covid, even if you don't feel that ill. It's what sick pay is for.

Some people can't afford to live on sick pay, or be worried about ,being disciplined for being off sick etc
You are so blinkered and making this all about your situation that you cannot see that others will be affected by not going to work.

As PP have said, some employers have a policy which means they will be put through disciplinary for three or more sicknesses in a period - mine is in a rolling 6 month period. So potentially 3 one-day sicknesses in six months would trigger it. People cannot stay off work and risk their jobs if they 'don't feel that ill', plus since tests are chargeable now most people don't have them and wouldn't know they have COVID if they don't feel that ill and don't feel unwell enough to miss work. And some employers only give statutory sick pay, which is very little and most people can't afford to lose pay when they feel well enough for work.

I'm sorry you are so vulnerable but your expectations of strangers are very unrealistic. People aren't going to go off sick for maybe COVID maybe not when they feel ok and will lose money and maybe risk their livelihood.