To finally be looking forward to a GE?

[Cadela]

The past election/PM changes have been horrendous. The visceral disappointment was awful each time.

I can’t wait to actually celebrate this year. I know, I know, Labour are going to set fire to the economy and tax everyone £3mil each and it’ll cost you 4 trillion a month to send you kid to private school, and all women will perish immediately because only Tories know what a woman is

But finally! It’s been a long fucking time coming.

@Anuggetofpurestgreen no you've read far too much into this.

My point is simple, I don't believe the state should be financially supporting, through tax breaks, education privilege through accident of brith.

I think the hyperbole might be yours there but @Anuggetofpurestgreen sums it up well

It’s a brief satisfaction at taking away from dc, but that doesn’t do much overall. As someone who uses state I’d prefer better policy.

O come on. You write like you know what you're talking about - surely you must know the truth about the note, which wasn't even left by Gordon Brown anyway! I'll pop a little link here to help you.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election

And then of course I can help you by giving you a little list of some of the good things to come from the last Labour government.

https://www.shrewsburylabour.org.uk/labours-top-50-achievements/

And finally I'm sure you know if you have done any kind of research at all and I appreciate that's not a given that debt is massively more after a Tory government now than it was after labour. Don't try blaming all of that on COVID which wouldn't have cost as much anyway without all the bungs to Tory mates

Hope that helps.

The state isn't financially supporting private schools. You havent lost any money than you would otherwise have had in your pocket, in fact youve gained money you wouldn't otherwise have had due to the savings.

Private schools are just outside the state provided education system. That's it. They just happen to be better in many cases (and many cases not). There's no reason why 100% of children need to be in exactly the same education system. We aren't China. The state system is there for everyone if you want or need it. You shouldn't be penalised if you don't use it.

I also think there are many positive effects of "accident of birth" that give advantage and aren't related to education. Eg wealth, brains, looks, parents, where you live in the UK. We can't and shouldn't make everything the same. We aren't a communist country (yet).

Anyway I didn't want to get into this argument as its intensely boring and a complete distraction from the current unbelievable shitshow of the UK. Kier doing this straight away when he gets in (as promised) will cause an almighty row, require hours and hours of parliamentary time, be the media,'s 100% focus, disrupt the education of lots of kids, cause expense and really...utterly pointless when the country is in such a state, nearly bankrupt and our kids may be off to fight in a war.

It was Angela Rayner.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/angela-rayner-rishi-sunak-pint-loser-pmqs-b2533939.html

For those who can’t comprehend why anyone would not vote Labour this time, perhaps some people think that politicians should be above resorting to mocking another person’s personal appearance or describing them as “scum”.

This is the problem many people are having when deciding their voting intentions. Whilst pretty much no one is happy with the current government, the alternative really doesn’t look any better.

@Anuggetofpurestgreen the state is absolutely supporting private education by giving lots of these schools charitable status that's the whole point of why people are upset at it being removed because it may mean they have to pay more to replace the funds lost to this change.

If we all accept state services needs more money why should we, in fact isn't it repugnant, be giving any kind of financial support to the private education industry?

Also, you're not seriously saying parents who send their children to private education are actually helping the state by relieving it of the cost of educating them?

There is no ‘support’. You’ve got it the wrong way round. Parents pay taxes but don’t use the state space.

Actually Dorries beat her to it. She used the phrase in her book and Raynor quoted it.

The Labour Party aren’t removing charitable status. They’ve confirmed that. Lots of private schools don’t have charitable status anyway. I cannot fathom how so many people in favour of this VAT policy don’t understand the basics of it.

Also, you're not seriously saying parents who send their children to private education are actually helping the state by relieving it of the cost of educating them?

Children using the private system are costing the taxpayer £0. Private schools actually pay input VAT, so they are actually contributing extra through the tax system. Those using the state system are costing the taxpayer £8k a year.

I agree. Another reality that will ramp up is parents using their extra funds to secure top state.

There’s another thread on address fraud for oversubscribed state and posts talking about some of the lengths parents go to to get in generally. They’ll be more of that for grammar and top state.

@SherbsL

you said: Thanks for the links you’ve posted.
I can’t seem to find the information about bursaries for students with SEN who are struggling in state schools? Please advise.

I explained that some children with SEN not only pass tough entrance exams but come out near the top. SEN children can access bursaries alongside children without SEN who also pass entrance exams.

I have loads of empathy for those kids. And am furious at what the tories have done to our state education. It’s not just SEN kids who are affected too of course.

As I said, it’s possible to feel for different groups in different ways.

Some schools have charitable status and some don't. And it's seperate from the VAT issue as provision of education is VAT exempt.

No financial support is being given to the private school industry. They are simply taxed in the same way as any other provider of education. Remember.. the money you have is your own and the state takes the tax it decides. It doesn't own your money and has no right to it other than what it takes as tax.

No I'm not saying the parents are intentionally helping the state by relieving them of the cost of educating their child. That's just a side-effect.

Anyway we obviously look at this completely differently from a moral standpoint. My view is no more or less moral than yours but neither of us are likely to be persuaded by the other so let's agree to disagree and move on as I think this is a distraction from the bigger picture and apologies but I can't muster up any more interest.

Sorry I don’t because moving schools
really isn’t a big deal. Kids do it all the time. Privately educated kids aren’t more fragile. 🤔

Private education is what causes the most damage re inequality.

There are lots of measures being put into place re grammars but I hope labour will have a big think about them too.

You’re missing the point entirely. What about the SEN children struggling in state schools who don’t or can’t pass the tough entrance exams? You earlier described the SEN departments in private schools as ‘welcoming’ - welcoming to the able and/or privileged only, both of which serve to benefit the school.
You can of course make whatever decisions you want to about your own child’s education, and while you focus on their SEN provision (which I’m sure is excellent) and the rare example of a council estate student at Eton, it ignores all of elitism and privilege.

The policy you want isn’t going to do anything bar shift some dc across.

Probably take out some means tested bursaries too and make top state more of a bunfight than it already is, with parents with extra funds getting the places.

Overall though it will make private more exclusive.

@SherbsL true. I’m not convinced labour have a clear policy to immediately transform things though. It is unfair, it’s unequal. Yes.

I just wanted to flag that SEN is a broad group and doesn’t exclude children who are academically able.

To be fair, our prep school wasn’t highly selective and some SEN children received bursaries from age 7. I know the number of children r at its SEN and bursaries will be small in the grand scheme of things though.

Oh, and yes to pp - I think bursary funds will be focused on children already at schools so they can complete their education and much less available to new students for a while.

I’ve always stayed up on GE night - having an hour’s kip on the sofa before midnight is a good plan, in order to stay awake when the results really start rolling in after about 2 am. And then check the Beeb news on the iPad for any early results I missed.
Plenty of coffee and snacks!

Looks as if Labour will be picking up a lot of extra seats north of the border, after the recent SNP fiascos.

Some of the SEN kids I know struggle with change. State or private. And parents have often fought hard to get their kids settled. Yes I feel for some of those children who may well be more fragile than others.

Numbers are already dropping(fees have gone up 8%). The money will be useful(£1.6 billion a year)

Hopefully labour will look at other measures in addition to tackle the inequality private education causes. I don’t know why unis can’t be forced to only accept the percentage of privately educated students there is within the population as a whole.

Going back to the op what is exciting is the thought that these types of things will be properly looked at by a government which actually cares about the majority instead of a rich few and their mates.

I think you’re a bit optimistic there given they are not looking at the downsides of their main policy properly.

More the votes it’ll bring them rather than any benefit.

Same

I do hope that the government don't make us stretch this out to the last minute. An election is definitely needed.