to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

They fucked around and find out. I don’t think the farmer should face consequences frankly.

I think if you break into someone’s private property you should expect to get whatever you get. Don’t want to get hurt or injured don’t break into someone’s home. Simple. The criminals are the three teenagers, the farmer a victim.

Not my area of expertise but I think it’s when big city drug dealers/organised crime gangs, groom young people to sell drugs in more rural areas.

This is why we need to police to investigate and lawyers to present the case to a jury.

Is it an innocent farmer faced with three men with guns defending himself

or

A farmer who’d sold his livestock started growing weed, involved in crime, defending his drugs from teenage scrumpers?

or
is it some other situation entirely

We just don’t know. But it’s right that when someone loses their life the police make it their job to find out.

iamtheblcksheep

People do give a shit though!! The rhetoric the farmer is some innocent Farmer Giles character is possibly crap! If he's protecting his huge weed grow and his takings from the proceeds of crime, some people may describe him as ‘scum’ too. They're all, possibly, involved in nefarious and dubious activities alongside their ‘day jobs’ and this is the sad outcome for them all.

Thank you! So the name means nothing really then?

The teen's Mum is a Nurse and as said they are all working. His family apparently aren't scum, he was a potental thief, yes.
I believe in the right defend yourself, but we don't have enough information yet to decide if the farmer was right to get the gun, from were it needed to be safely stored and then shoot. Although the shooting did take place inside his property. I the US there has been people looking for help, delivery people etc and police, attending a burglary, shot dead. I know some really horrible, abusive men who have gun licences, so of course the circumstances need to be investigated.

Slight tangent, but farmers and guns….

What do farmers shoot, generally? DB has one for foxes, as he has chickens.
If it’s not a chicken farm, what do you shoot? Presumably marauding dogs harassing sheep on a sheep farm.

On a dairy farm, what do you need to shoot?
On an arable farm?

Take it to court

Let's hope we have some Mumsnetters on the jury. I wouldn't convict him

It’s basically the city to rural areas and countryside pipeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_lines_drug_trafficking

Poor farmer. His life is ruined now
As for the deceased criminal, good riddance to bad rubbish. We should bring in laws like America where you are entitled to shoot trespassers. Sadly that won't happen as the justice system jn this country is heavily weighted in favour of the perpetrator. The victim is merely an afterthought

A farmer who’d sold his livestock started growing weed, involved in crime, defending his drugs from teenage scrumpers?

Would he want to draw attention to his weed growing by reporting a burglary that happened the previous day ? Would he want Police on his property if involved in nefarious activity ?

Not sure why that’s the name but in my head I draw lines out from the city into the surrounding counties? The lines represent drug distribution. But that’s not based on any real understanding!

Let’s hope there aren’t people like you on the jury - or any jury come to that. You do know juries are supposed to reach decisions based on evidence?

Poor farmer. He was protecting his family yet I bet you the community will be painting him as a villain now and the burglar will be seen as an angel.
Imagine if the farmer hadn't fired and got killed or injured by these three. The story could be totally different.

People should be allowed to defend themselves when their homes are broken in.

I still don't fully 'get,' it as the law is the same everywhere. I seem to have some sort of mental block with it 😳

County Lines refers to the phone lines used to order drugs by people in more rural areas from dealers in urban areas and the activity associated with fulfilling those orders which often involves vulnerable and young people coerced into trafficking the drugs and money.

Poor farmer and hello neighbour OP!

I appreciate what you're saying but the burglars did take weapons with them so they obviously were prepared to be violent. I don't think you can take weapons with you somewhere and claim you were never going to actually use them.

@DanielGault it is called county lines because the crimes are committed in a county that the criminals don't reside in. Here in Liverpool teens are recruited to sell drugs North Wales, at festivals and other places. Other criminal activities would include farm/plant equipment and car theft. Teens/kids will also be used to move cash, weapons, drugs around. Before seeing it as an offence, the vulnerable young person wouldn't be seen as a victim. The offence for the dealer is one akin to modern day slavery.

Pigeons, rats, rabbits.

I think that people should wait for the police investigation before pronouncing verdicts. People can use reasonable force to protect themselves. If your life is in danger that's one thing, if you are ticked off that's something else.

But do we know that?

Were the burglars in the house, or an outbuilding?
Were they armed with firearms, knives, or sticks?
Were the weapons intended to threaten the farmer or were they intended to help them break in and steal whatever it was they were intending to steal?
Was the farmer innocently asleep in bed, or was he awake, and waiting for the burglars?
Did the farmer shoot the burglars while in fear for his life or that of his family, or did he react in anger to someone being in one of his sheds?

Nothing excuses the burglars’ actions, but burglary does not carry the death penalty.

The facts need to be known before the degree of guilt or innocence of the farmer can be decided.

The law is the same. It’s just that it’s a phenomenon in rural areas that young people are being groomed to sell drugs. So it’s the same thing as in the city but whereas rural areas might not have historically had an issue with young people being drawn into criminal gangs and drug dealing, now they do if they are close enough to a big city. It’s drug dealers expanding their empire by moving into rural areas they might not have gone into before, is the gist. County lines isn’t a legal term. Just a description of the phenomenon.

As you say, depends what happened.