to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

I'd like revenge on the scroat who stole the gold ring my granny gave me with my initials on aged ten. My christening bracelet silver aged 0.

QED

Death penalty?

🙄

I think the thief having his hands chopped off might be more appropriate in this case.

Frankly, I think the farmer deserves a knighthood for services to the community.

Frankly I think you’ve chosen an incredibly appropriate name.

@itsjustataste - you might need to start a new thread, please!

Noooooooo!

Ah yes, because abusers who abuser and/or kill don’t already come out with ridiculous reasons for their crimes.

’she asked me to choke her, your honour’

Yep hand off, tattoo across the forehead stating thief would do me

You think that government sanctioned dismemberment will lead to a less violent society?

Well theyd stand out if handless and tattooed that'll do me. They can do the same with rapists as far as I'm concerned.

It's quite scary to know that if that mother had managed to stab that man to death before he'd had the chance to rape her or her daughter, there'd be women on MN calling for her to be imprisoned because "he didn't deserve to die just for breaking into a house..."

I had no idea there were so many hang ‘em and flog ‘em types on Mumsnet.

I think a lot of people think of burglars as men in striped shirts with domino masks - loveable rogues, not real "baddies".

Why not? Perhaps not for the first offence, but 3 burglary convictions..?

They can't all be wrongful convictions and they get 2 chances to change their ways.

After that, they're never going to be anything but a scourge on society and why should the rest of us suffer the consequences of their actions?

Quite the straw man you have there.

I know. I find it terrifying. It reminds me of the lynch mob that targeted a paediatrician a few years ago.

I think that when you've experienced crime or are close to someone who has, it can harden your views somewhat.

I’ve experienced a burglary while we were asleep upstairs, had my handbag stolen twice, purse taken from bag once. I still don’t believe thieves should have their hands cut off.

If 'terrifying' isn't hyperbole, I suggest that you're guilty of a rather extreme and disproportionate response.

Equally, targeting a totally innocent person is rather different to discussing self defence and reasonable force (assessed as at the time, not hindsight) in relation to aggravated burglary.

The 'I thought my wife was an intruder' defence doesn't stack up because of how the law on self defence works. You can't make the first move, for a start, because it's then not self defence. In order to not make the first move, the intruder / 'intruder' would have to be both visible to you and threatening you. This is where you fall down on claiming it's your wife. Because you need to be threatened first. And if your wife is in front of you, threatening you, she can't be an intruder, as you'd recognise her.

'3)...A man who is attacked or believes that he is about to be attacked may use such force as is both necessary and reasonable in order to defend himself. If that is what he does then he acts lawfully.
It follows that a man who starts the violence, the aggressor, cannot rely upon self-defence to render his actions lawful.'

You could try to claim self defence in general, but not that you thought your wife was also an intruder, as that can't be true to meet the self defence test. Forensics often rules that defence out though. You'd potentially try provocation instead of self defence against a spouse, which is only a defence against murder.

Same. Burgled once and been pickpocketed. At the end of the day they took stuff and I’m still alive.

That's the point. You're still alive, thank God. You might not have been.
The old lady who lived up the road from my relative wasn't so lucky. The 14 yr old intruder raped and murdered her.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horrified-family-murdered-pensioner-learns-10060470

I'd not go so far as cutting off the hand of a thief, but if someone breaks into a house, my sympathies are wholly with the homeowner, no matter what happens.

If by some miracle, the 14 yr old who killed this lady had been killed first, I'd have had no sympathy for him. If you break into someone's house, you're up to no good.

If you're the householder, you handle it as best as you can. If keeping quiet works - fine. If you need to use a weapon to keep yourself safe, that's equally fine. You can't necessarily afford to wait and hope that the intruder is non-violent.

I'm just suggesting tattooing their forehead with the words burglar, rapist, etce. That's not even that painful.