to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

Absolutely 100% behind the farmer. He was defending his property, farming life is hard enough without having to deal with crap like this.

100% with the farmer. No sympathy with the thieving scrotes.

I hope a precedent is set and the farmer isn't charged. These scumbags need to know there are consequences. Have donated to the fundraiser. I am sick to death of criminals constantly getting away with it in this country.

No need to be snippy. Why are you being like that? Did I say something to offend you? I was asking a PP who said that there had been a rise in theft from farms near them and so I asked why.

It’s a form of organised crime. Stuff is nicked to order or to sell on to other countries.

No sympathy for the burglar. He might have been young but he wasn't a child. He was more than old enough to know how terrifying his actions would be to the family in the house, and the fact he had a weapon, shows that it was deliberate.
As for his family, if that had my DS, I would be grieving absolutely but also absolutely in shock and horrified and upset and angry that he had done something so incredibly stupid. I can't see any circumstances where I'd blame the farmer.

The 3 men were there with intent to commit something (theft or whatever), they knew there was a risk of being caught in the act and decided to do it anyway as the consquences (i.e.punishment) these days is not much of a deterrent. Would they have done it if they were going to be shot, highly unlikely so I am with the farmer defending his property and family.

@Icantrememberthename well, as you concede yourself, you’re derailing the thread with silly questions to which it’s perfectly easy to find out the answers from publically available information.

But would that still be a better haul than a bunch of smart phones, jewellery etc that you’d get in a house in the city?

Yes !
Although if you want to go down this career route, then I would probably go down the break in , nick keys and car, in and out in a few minutes and away, usually a few hours before people wake up and notice. Smart phones and jewellery tend to be in a closer vicinity to people and successful career burglars tend to shy away from meeting their victims.

More remote/fewer witnesses/fewer cameras. I am spending far too much time watching true crime ATM. It's clearly frying my brain 😔

@Icantrememberthename

🐷

Ah. Yes. Fewer cameras makes sense. So more police presence rurally would help for quicker response times may be.

Local BBC news report focused very much on the burglar who died being a nice young man who played football for the local team & djayed at the local pub.
Oh & attempted an armed break in with 2 accomplices who were also armed.
Highly unlikely this was the first time they'd tried this.

They should have raised their kid to be a decent person really shouldn’t they. Not the farmer’s fault the kid was wasting his life!

The burglars are bullies who feel that in this now lawless land they can attack and take with impunity.

What course of action can victims of crime resort to but self defence.

Future criminals should take note - if it’s not your house it’s not your rules.

I'm with the farmer. They broke into his home / farm to steal. What happened was a consequence of that. It is very sad a life was lost but had he not been a thief, he'd be alive now.

Really. I had no idea. More rural police resources does seem to be the answer then.

Thanks for the careers advice btw.

Having been burgled twice when I lived alone - and being so terrified in my own home after that and having to sell up and move - I think the burglar got what he deserved.

100% behind the farmer.

Quite frankly the world is a far better place without a person who would break into a family's home at night with a weapon.

We'd only have had to pay thousands to house and feed the bastard, until he got out and did it again. And again.

Not surprised the scum that raised scum are behaving scummily to the actual victim of this crime, the farmer and his family.

We don't know he was armed, let alone what with, we don't know if he was trying to attack the farmer, running away or forced onto his knees and executed!

We don't even know what they were trying to steal.

Its all speculation.

Until it happens to you, you don't know what you'd feel about your dead son or the farmer who shot him.

There was a case where a burglar was killed by an elderly man, and the burglars family made life hell for the couple. There was a massive funeral and heaps of wreaths at the house, and so on.

I'm local too. The debate is hugely polarised.
Many people I know, know all 3 teens. Good jobs, played sport, popular in the community. Helped at school to move away from bad decisions and grooming into county lines etc

The bad decisions continue as they get older. They go to a local farm they believe to be deserted, not to steal farming equipment but to steal other less legal substances! This is where the alternative rhetoric and possible speculation begins… Growing in abundance. Little do they know the farmer is waiting and prepared ( premeditated) . Then the farmer in his 50s shoots to kill teenagers! Keep shooting as they run. Maybe a warning shot, a shot to the knee etc? But he's handed out the death penalty here and ended the life of a 19 year old and nearly done the same to someone younger.

A sad situation for everyone involved certainly.

I live nearby and there's not enough information to know whether the farmer acted in self defence from what's been reported. To be clear, I am in no way condoning the people who allegedly went there to burgle with weapons. I was reminded of this man who fought off a burglar in his kitchen and killed him as it's not a million miles away: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/killed-burglar-haunts-day/

There are lots of break ins and thefts in rural areas - local Facebook pages round here frequently have posts warning people about gangs going round and suspect vehicles. The thieves can escape across the countryside, often effectively out of sight. Local police stations have been closed over recent years.

I suppose whether they can bring a charge of murder will depend on whether the farmer had time to get the gun and ammunition from where they’re stored before shooting the burglar (they should both be locked away in separate cabinets) or did he have them to hand with the intention of shooting someone should anyone try to break in.

As for the burglar surely anyone with an ounce of sense knows farmers have guns, so probably best not to break in if you don’t want to get shot. The farmer has saved the tax payer a fortune in the costs of keeping the little scrote locked up, he was hardly likely to ever be an asset to society and probably would’ve spent his life in prison or committing crimes, so I can’t say I feel much sympathy for him or his family.

I hope the farmer isn’t prosecuted and it’s clarified that if you break in to someone’s home they can kill you and won’t be prosecuted.

Not really I don't think. Police don't have superpowers to see down dark lanes etc. That's the 'beauty' of city living, more people, more eyes on you. Policing is generally more after the fact, and the 'presence'. But the 'presence' is a show, deterrent, there can never be enough of them. And rurally, I assume, there won't be a 'beat' going up and down country lanes etc.