to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

Thanks.

A tractor is a very slow get away vehicle. Do they load them onto something?

Sorry. I’m just baffled by the choice these lads made. If I was going to turn to a life of crime I would steal in the city where I would be anonymous and home owners are less likely to be armed. Rurally you are much more easily spotted as you get away and there is the added risk of firearms and difficult to shift items. A TV is much easier to sell on than a tractor I’d have thought.

Just curiosity really. Either way I really feel for the farmer. So scary.

I’ve been burgled multiple times. Once when my daughter was 2 and in the bath and I was home alone, someone broke into our garage. I am 100% with the farmer.

I feel horrible for everyone in this situation, nobody has come out winning here.
Awful and devastating situation for everyone involved, especially the families of both.
The farmer has to live knowing he killed a teenage lad, took him from his family.
However I'd defend my family any way necessary from tooled up intruders, so I'm certainly not shocked someone with access to a gun, when had their safety threatened, used it.
I hope the poor lads family are supported. Yes he did something hideous but he didn't deserve to die, it was a very sad consequence to his cruel actions.
If the farmer had no other option, say he was going to be attacked etc I'd hope he's spared prison. If he shot at them whilst they ran, then that does change things. Tragic.

No. They arrest in order to investigate - to question the suspect and perform searches before evidence can be interfered with. They only have a limited time amount of total custody time before they have to charge (24 hrs is standard but a crime like murder they’ll probably apply for an extension) but they normally release on police bail to pause that clock while they make other enquiries and/or so CPS can assess the evidence and make a charging decision.

What attempts do you feel people should make to get a burglar to leave before they can actually defend theirselves? Say pretty please would you mind leaving my property? This farmer had no idea what these scumbags were capable of, might have been high on drugs for all he knew! (maybe I should stop listening to so many true crime podcasts but I think my point is still valid 😬).

Never looked at the cost of a tractor no. Sorry, I wasn’t suggesting there is nothing of value on a farm. I’m just trying to figure out why take the risk of exposure in a rural location when there are far more safer options in the city, where there is less chance if guns being involved.

"MariaVT65 · Today 06:58

I don’t agree that if you shoot one burglar, it would be an automatic presumption that the others would run away immediately."

Sorry but I think unless it's some sort of gangland score settling situation like that show, The Gentleman, I really can't imagine a scenario where anyone faced with someone with a gun who has just shot your mate so is clearly not afraid to use it, and you only have a knife, WOULDN'T turn around and run. Seriously?
I know nothing about shotguns though so if as a PP said you could kill 2 people with 1 shot then I guess that's the only situation where this wouldn't be ringing massive dodgy alarm bells for me.

Might be worse now but Tony Martin was in 1999, we had more police back then but rural crime is always a lower priority, it just takes up far more manpower, with far lower response times.

Ultimately, its our justice system and more importantly, rehabilitation, prisons are just churning out worse criminals than went in, drugs and absolutely nothing to do.

We jail more people per capita than almost country in Europe but have high crime and low detection rates.

I agree there isn't enough info yet to judge - and am amazed how quickly people are willing to judge on this.

If the situation is as any of us imagine - a lonely farmer terrified for his life while three imposing intruders come into him home armed and dangerous - seems more than reasonable to use a firearm to defend himself.

But I've seen enough news stories unfold over the years to know things are often different and much more complex than I first imagine.

A tractor is a very slow get away vehicle.

There are lots of additional bits you can use on tractors that are easier to shift and sell on, nick a trailer and you can get away with quite a haul that's worth a fortune. Plus modern tractors unladen aren't that slow.

It’s sad because a young person has lost their life but the farmer I have every sympathy with and would probably do the same.

OP… kindly, farmer is not at fault here

I certainly didn't intend to sound like I thought he had! I don't. I feel very sorry for him and completely understand the reaction and as said in my OP would do the same to protect my children if I had a gun handy!

Me saying it's sad the young guy died is purely in a sense that I find it a shame / waste when anyone so young gets involved in this sort of lifestyle and ultimately pays with their life. It is a waste. But entirely his own doing.

I do worry that the farmer will struggle even when/if released to resume a normal life here given how close by the boys family and friends are. It'll be difficult. I'm not suggesting for a moment I think that's right but I do see that being how it goes with the general feel across social media in the community (many many more farmers side by the sounds of it but there is definitely plenty of talk on the opposite side too from local family/friends of the boy).

The local pub he DJ'd at even put a post out saying how awfully sad they were at the loss, how lovely he was etc etc until they deleted it not long after.

I was just thinking of this. As if farmers don't have a hard enough time as it is.

Tony Martin did time for it regardless of sympathy though.

It all depends on what actually happened but if 3 men were there armed and robbing the farm you’d seriously expect the farmer to do nothing or not to shoot at someone? Suppose one of them attacked him to harm or even kill him?

These men are utter scum.

You've clearly put a lot of thought into this 😂

Yeah such a lovely young lad who’s prepared to thieve and use violence with it…

if he saw them sneaking into a barn and opened fire then that's not OK

The one who died was found dead inside the house. The other that was shot was found outside in the road. Whether or not he fled after being shot into the road I don't know.

Thanks. But would that still be a better haul than a bunch of smart phones, jewellery etc that you’d get in a house in the city? I guess I’m baffled as to why risk such exposure. But then they are not the brightest if they have had to resort to crime I guess.

Tony Martin did time for it regardless of sympathy though.

Of course he did. He shot the intruder in the back while he was running away.

Makes no difference to me what happened to either of them. Maybe it’ll deter other potential thieves.

Those young men entered his home with weapons with the intent of stealing and possibly harming him and his family.

Of course it's sad they have died but the farmer shouldn't be held responsible, he acted as most of us would I think.

I’m old enough to recall the Martin case and to be fair even though the man was running away, I think Martin was in all probability right to do what he did. His farm had been burgled multiple times. Presumably little or no help from local police force.

@Icantrememberthename

https://farming.co.uk/news/why-farms-are-becoming-crime-targets-and-can-farmers-protect-themselves

10s internet search, that took.

Going out with weapons means you accept the risk, imo.

Ha ha. I know. I’m honestly not about to turn to a life of crime, honest guv. I’ve just got this real question about why on earth a burglar would choose rural. It seems crazy and from the post above it is thought through sometimes if they are scoping the place out in daylight. I should stop derailing though.