to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

Whilst I regret that anyone that young was stupid enough to get themselves killed, my sympathies lie with the farmer. Faced with three armed attackers, he had little or no choice but to defend himself.

The Tony Martin case was different, the burglar was killed while he was running away. It wasn’t self defence, his life wasn’t in danger.

Don’t they usually have to charge them within 24 hours of the arrest though? I would have thought they tend to hold off on arresting until they think they have a reasonable case for a charge, because of that time constraint.

We don't have enough information to make a judgement about whether the farmer used reasonable force.

We don't know if that wasn't the case here, this guy shot two people, ok fair enough the first one but you'd expect the others to run.

Not enough info but the law was changed after Tony Martin to allow householders to use lethal force in some cases.

But tbh no sympathy for the robbers, too many people think its ok to take someone else's hard earned property and our justice system almost seems to encourage it.

"We don't know if that wasn't the case here, this guy shot two people, ok fair enough the first one but you'd expect the others to run."

This.

Obviously if I had a gun to hand and thought someone might hurt me or my family, id likely shoot them (if like to think I'd go for the leg or something but realistically id probably not be a good enough aim or be so scared I wouldn't think of it in the moment) but to shoot 2 people? That seems a bit strange. Don't you think?

Very little information yet on what actually happened, but I'm probably going to be team farmer. It must have been terrifying for him.

I don't understand all the righteous indignation about farmer being arrested though. Someone's dead, someone shot him, the police can't just say that's okay and refuse to investigate as usual.

CPS will decide whether to charge and with what.

The burglars were absolute scrotes but we can't allow killings with no investigation. Police do not and should not have the power to be judge and jury.

I fear the farmer and his family's lives will be made hell and be at risk for years, whatever the legal outcome.

My sympathies are with the farmer .
If the young man wasn't a thief and in someone else's home he'd be alive .

Likely to have been a shotgun? One shot could easily get two people.

Burglary doesn’t have to be of a house, they could have been stealing from one of the outbuildings. It would still be trespass, so still burglary.

Absolutely, but if someone is out in the yard stealing your stuff, that isn't quite the same as entering your home and threatening your family is it ?
For all we know he might have fired off some shots in the dark, hoping to make them scarper, and unfortunately hit them. I say unfortunately because I am sure the farmer would have preferred they had just buggered off or even better not been there at all.

My sympathy is with the farmer.

The "oh, he was a really nice, caring lad" reports are coming out.
Really?!
Do nice, caring people turn up at rural properties tooled up? Why are they tooled up? To attack the occupants when they invariably disturb them?

Sometimes people make stupid decisions in life, just like these 3 did when they decided to break into someone's house who by way of his occupation had a gun.
Life is tough but it's even tougher when you're stupid!

I don’t agree that if you shoot one burglar, it would be an automatic presumption that the others would run away immediately.

Agreed.

farm Burglaries around here often involve a drive round in the day light with and “all right mate, I heard there was a van for sale” to scope the place out. Often followed by sitting at the end of the farm drive with the lights on watching and waiting before disappearing for a few hours. it most definitely feels intimidating. If you put cctv in they will break in via the one spot on the farm you haven’t got covered and leave waving at the camera out the car window.

Rural policing is on its knees. Most people round here pay a private security company who run patrols between 10pm and 5am with dogs.

If you break into someones house, its fair game if you are shot and killed if you ask me.
The victim only has himself to blame. He’d be alive if he hadn’t chosen to break into another persons home. I have zero sympathy in these cases.

I think though this would be a dangerous precedent to set. I think he has to be prosecuted sadly or we would end up with more violence ultimately. I really feel for the farmer and I hope he doesn’t serve jail time but I think not persecuting at all has too big ramifications for society.

I also ask myself why do people steal and what would prevent it in the first place. I imagine the cost of living crisis has increased crime, for example. There will always be thugs and low lifes that do this stuff but we do need to work out how to get the best out of people.

What is it that is being stolen? I don’t know farming well enough but can’t imagine what there is to steal.

Correct, you don’t know farming well.

He may have been young but definitely old enough to know not to break into someone’s home & steal. Sorry but it’s his own fault. I feel bad for the farmer.

Diesel, easy to lift tools like chainsaws, bolt cutters. Quad bikes and gators. That’s the bread and butter.

Theres a huge issue with GPS kits on tractors being stolen. They’re worth tens of thousands of pounds and apparently end up in Russia.

Anything metal with a value. Eg if the price of copper goes through the roof copper wiring becomes the item of choice.

I can see why the farmer is in custody as it would give a bad message to say you can just shoot people coming into your home but as it's aggravated burglary meaning they were potentially carrying their own firearm I think fair play to the farmer. You can't just wait to be shot as a victim of a burglary and anyone carrying a fire arm into someone's property is either willing to use it or lead people into believing they will.

That’s why I asked. Is there something in particular they are after. It just seems like going out to a farm is much more risky that stealing in a town or city where you can hide more easily.

But I just realised it’s probably not good to advertise what they are after so fine not to say. I was just curious so no need to be rude to me.

@Icantrememberthename quad bikes, machinery....have you seen how much tractors cost 😳?
On our farm, people could be rifling in the barns and you wouldn't know it due to the location of the farmhouse.
We have perimeter alarms, CCTV at the road, which is 800m from the buildings, CCTV all around the property. We do what we can.

Prior to us moving in, the overhead electric wires were stolen for the copper 🤷🏻‍♀️, how they didn't get fried I don't know 🤣
There isn't a low they aren't prepared to stoop to.

Now that's a Go Fund Me I can get behind, I will donate for sure.

I agree with play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I support the farmer all the way. He's done a public service - how many more people would that scumbag gone on to violate and terrorise?

I've donated to his Gofundme page

It’s a terrible situation. We don’t want teenagers shot regardless of if they are a burglar. Ultimately I blame Tory cuts. If you got burgled the night before, three men come at you with weapons and you have no confidence the police will respond then you are more likely to shoot.
The farmer should never have been in that situation.