to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

Yes this was my thought too. There isn’t a lot of information in the news report. For all I know the burglars could have been shot in their backs just as they were leaving the property. It seems strange the farmer was charged with murder rather than a lesser charge like manslaughter. Not that I think the police are always right.

I agree that burglary is incredibly traumatic, armed burglary off the scale and I can absolutely imagine a scenario where three men are using weapons to threaten a family and the victim shoots. I don't think anyone would lack sympathy for a person who fully believes their life or their children's life is at risk and who shoots the aggressor. If that's what this was, of course I feel sorry for the farmer.

But some of the comments here suggesting that at nineteen the burglar was already a write-off with no chance of reforming, that his own family shouldn't grieve him - really?? He was a human being, I'm sure people loved him even though he was a thief! That's not the only thing he ever was or could be. I don't think he deserved to die for his crime. Which doesn't mean I necessarily blame the farmer who presumably acted in a moment of blind fear and panic trying to keep himself and his family safe.

In terms of your use of ‘thief’, burglars are different to shoplifters though aren’t they. The victim who has has a stranger break into their home, commonly in the middle of the night, may be left traumatised for a very long time. My brother went through a very traumatic burglarly when he was a child and couldn’t shower without someone standing guard outside the bathroom door. So i don’t give a flying fuck about whether this guy was able to be reformed or not.

I think I read that the young burglar was a longterm criminal from a traveller family? Maybe his life choices had been influenced by his upbringing but as someone from highly abusive and dysfunctional childhood myself I do not accept there is any justification for such criminal behaviour.
I support the farmer. Being a farmer he will have likely had a licence for his gun so who wouldn’t act if their home was invaded like this. Better to still be alive to debate with the police than dead.
If you break into somebody’s home then your rights are secondary.

That poor farmer. What a horrible situation he was in. Can't image anyone having sympathy for the burglar who breaks into the house. He shouldn't have been there.

In the moment though, it’s not about protecting ‘property’. Armed or not, if a stranger breaks into my home, i can’t be sure they are just there to try and nick my tv. So my instinct is to protect my young kids.

I don't think there is enough information yet, I think it is tragic that someone was put in the position where they felt the need to use a gun and that they killed someone as a result.
Generally all the stuff worth nicking on farms tends to be outside in outbuildings, so I don't understand why they would need to enter the house ? or why they would risk going at such an early hour when someone might still be awake ? although it sounds as though they or someone else attempted similar in broad daylight the previous day.
In such a small community, it is likely the Farmer would have known them or known their family members wouldn't they ?

It's a shame he didn't kill all three dirty scrotes.

#Team Farmer

Yes you're right that the word thief is inadequate, violent criminal would have been a better description. I'm very sorry for your brother.

live by the sword, die by the sword.

i can feel sympathy for his family, but none for the burglar.

I’d be interested to know how often the farm has been burgled in the past and if anything else is going on. I’m from a farming community and there is huge problems with farm theft that the police
do very little about. Some farms are targeted relentlessly. Normally it’s diesel, gps systems and easy to nick tools though not houses. However, once there’s an issue there the targeting can change in nature and be very very personal. I suspect there’s a lot more to this.

Oh well, such is life.
I'd shoot them as well.
#teamfarmer

also local and partially within the farming/rural community, and the hearsay is 'go and watch The Gentleman on Netflix and you might have more of an idea what it was about' - no personal knowledge, but sympathies for all of those families whose lives have been disrupted by this!

No one has mentioned this, it was utterly predictable that they were in danger of being shot. They were breaking into a farmers house, one of the tiny group of people in the UK who often have a gun licence. They had broken in the night before, utterly stupid not to consider this was a possibility. I would have my gun to hand too, the night after a break in, I'd also still be wide awake at 1am. I do fear this may be the farmers downfall. That he was deliberately prepared for another break in (which is perfectly reasonable under the circumstances and this will be twisted into premeditation or not proportional.

I don't feel particularly bad about the man who was killed, occupational hazard. I hope whoever was with him feel awful and this is a chance for them to turn your life around and there will be three fewer burglers in the world.

Strikes me that the burglars were armed, if it was aggravated burglary. If true, I'd say that it's simply karma that they met someone better armed than them.
I'm on the farmers side here. The same gang tried raiding him the night before. He was likely severely anxious and afraid that night. Yet the twits came back for another try? It's not difficult to see, on a surface level, why he'd be prepared for them. There may be other things going on, but on the surface, it's pretty much all self inflicted by the burglars, despite the farmer pulling the trigger. He wouldn't have done that if they hadn't forced their way in, so....

I also think it makes a huge difference when you think about these situations whether you live out in the middle of nowhere with not so much as a single neighbour to call on for help, or whether you live in the city. Shooting someone in the city if they try to get in your flat seem overkill but it’s the level of intent that has gone into it when it’s a rural property. Burglars have to be confident they can not only break in, but also manage to get back to whatever vehicle they have, fields and fields away. Having stayed in both the town and country, I do think living in the country makes you feel way more vulnerable as it’s literally you vs them if someone does decide to break in

I don’t agree IME. Earlier I referenced a burglary that my brother was victim of. Many neighbours called the police (who still took 30 mins to arrive), but none of them actually came to help.

Ive just donated to his Go Fund Me, I feel terribly sad for the farmer and his family.

He hasn’t been charged, he’s been arrested for murder. So that’s what they are investigating him for, but it doesn’t mean they have the evidence for it. They may rule it out as they investigate.

I was burgled a few years ago. It is an awful invasive crime. Strangers in your private space, rifling through your underwear, taking your most precious possessions. Since that day I have slept with a hammer under my bed. I would go at a burglar with anything I could find. I've been physically attacked on the street and when my friends found me I had my attacker up against the side of a bus stop with my hands around his neck. I had never fully understood the phrase "to see red" until then. The rage totally took over. I hope I would be the same if confronted by a burgling scrote in my house.

Team farmer.

@OpusGiemuJavlo "but if they just have a knife and no victim within arms reach they don't have capacity to harm anyone and shooting them is wrong."

Your reasoning is ludicrous. 'a knife & no-one within reach.' That situation could change literally in a split second. It takes no account of a victim's state of fear, his natural and overwhelming instinct to protect his family. His being surrounded by THREE of them, all armed. The dark, the late hour, tiredness, adrenaline.

If the police and CPS do their job, the farmer will be home by lunchtime.

Your post made me so cross I've donated to the fund.

While I’m sorry to this young man’s family for their loss. I’m with the Farmer here if you break into someone’s home you’re taking your chances.

Team farmer!! 100%

The idiots broke into his house twice, armed. They took weapons! I'm sure all of the "he was a lovely lad" brigade will make lots of noise (which they already are locally and on social media!) but a lovely lad doesn't take part in an armed burglary.

Why on earth would they expect not to meet fire with fire, you take weapons in an attempt to burgle and physically hurt / threaten someone and don't expect them to defend themselves? Especially on a rural farm where more often than not, they've got firearms? The farmer feared for his life and acted appropriately imo.

This is peak fuck around and find out.

My heart goes out to the farmer and his family. Zero sympathy for the armed robbers.

Burglary doesn’t have to be of a house, they could have been stealing from one of the outbuildings. It would still be trespass, so still burglary.