to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

@RLaurelG - it's been disclosed that the dead man was in the farmhouse kitchen. How do you suppose he got there if he and his mates never went inside and were running for their lives? Your posts read like gossip rather than anything based on fact.

Whatever any if us might think of the police, I think it unlikely officers would be so naive as to jeopardise the case by revealing the information you claim they've disclosed locally.

Yep. And somehow, posters on this thread will construe this as being “team burglar” because you haven’t pre-judged the situation without knowing all the facts.

Some others will answer this post saying that they don’t need to know any more - it’s obvious what’s happened.

There’s only one “team burglar” poster on this thread and she popped up late last night (and she’s either on a wind up or a relative of one of the burglars).

I very much hope this thread is not representative of the public at large, but somehow I doubt it.

So we should just abandon any attempt at justice and operate mob rule?

In the kitchen? That is new information - the reports I’ve seen do not mention a location within the property. Do you have a link to the source please? TIA.

He didn’t run from the police. Why do people keep repeating this shit! He picked up a a metro and walked through the tube gates, got on the tube and sat down.

It seems some posters would be ok if some poor misunderstood thugs made a "mistake" and " accidentally " broke into their homes. Maybe you'd step aside and say make yourself at home, tell them where you keep the family heirlooms. Ask them if they're here just to steal or to rape and murder. Honestly it seems some people would just defend the criminals to be contrary.

If you break into a house then you take your chances. You're going in there with bad intentions, you get what you deserve. This chap isn't going burgle anyone else. One less!

A friend of mine who moved out at 18 and had a child then too (moved to a council estate) shoved me a sharp knife she kept by her bed when she became single. I don’t blame her.

I’ve never gone that far but a man I knew years ago offered to buy me an Alsatian (German shepherd) dog for protection. I turned him down only because I didn’t want to walk it and look after it. He was adamant a single woman living alone should have a fierce dog for protection.

I could do that before someone got though my door. Location of the safes is the thing.

Although frankly clanging around would be a good deterrent you’d hope they would hear oh shit his got his gun run!

It’s never happened to me but a few people I know (and living with DC) have had a burglar break into their homes whilst they were asleep.

Luckily they slept through it but what if they or their DC woke up?

I swear MN land is nuts sometimes, they’d hand the burglar a cup of tea and biscuits then their valuable belongings.

Most men I know would within reason tackle a burglar but obvs think as to if they had a weapon. I don’t trust police anymore anyway. By the time I rang 999 the burglar would’ve long gone.

Of course there isn’t. Just like there isn’t a zebra/dolphin hybrid. They aren’t even remotely related.

It doesn't take long to open a gun safe, and shotgun shells don't have to be locked up.

Wow if this is true, how crazy is that? Basically, if you make plans to defend yourself in an emergency you're considered a criminal. But if you're completely unprepared and happen to get lucky and stumble upon something to defend yourself in the moment, that's ok!

Honestly, if this poor farmer faces criminal repercussions then the country should be in uproar because the idea that we're not afforded the right to defend ourselves (even in our own home!!) is completely unacceptable.

Such a nice lad and from such a nice family that he robbed. Bollocks to that.

The fact he’s a teenager and so were the others is neither here nor there. So they’re allowed to make mistakes and rob people simply because they’re teenagers? Nope.

Yes, I’ve known scrotes who’ve done this as teenagers and seemingly turned their lives around. Do I trust them now? No. There’s a big difference to having fun and doing illegal stuff as a teenager to thieving houses/farms.

Yup it’s what we were told too we have an active shooting range in the garden thus we have a supply of targets and weapons to hit those targets. It’s a sport/hobby not for self defence purposes. But if someone happened to break in at say 3am and I panicked and grabbed one of the weapons then so be it.

Assumptions I know these facts I’m from the area haha. He could have given them a chance. Their phones fell out as they ran. Everything wallet etc. they were teenagers they deserved a chance to learn from their mistakes like I know we have all made and our children will make mistakes one day. He was from a normal nice family. It’s easy for peers to pressure etc. it’s easy to fall in the wrong crowed. Imagine it was your children

They were armed, weren’t they?

It’s highly unlikely an armed offence was their first offence.

Oh, I think she/he was listening to someone who had too much "one-sided insider information" and was trying to pass it off as fact.

I will be waiting for their next round of excuses. "He was in the kitchen because he was thirsty". "They were armed in case a wild pack of chinchillas attacked." "They were there collecting for UNICEF/Save The Children/PETA....."

He came armed with a cake tray and was just making a brew for the farmer to go with his cake. Clearly duh 😂

Not one single person (other than the 1 strange poster that started suggesting they had insider knowledge) has defended the burglars or called them nice lads so I'm not sure why that keeps getting repeated.

The response times in rural areas are basically measured in hours. If at all. Same for ambulances. We used to have four police stations in our borough. Now we have none at all. So, 150 square miles with no permanent police presence. When police are called they often get lost and can’t find remote properties as they aren’t local and don’t know the area.

Rural crime is actually MUCH safer (from the burglars point of view) than urban burglaries. Farm buildings are usually remote from the farmhouse so you
can go and nick stuff with impunity and even if you do trigger alarms you know that basically nothing will happen. And you can always make off cross-country along byways and lanes that you know like the back of your hand and the police will have no knowledge of.

There’s no winners here, a very young man is dead, his family left grieving, a family home has been violated and they’ve been in fear, a farmer has to live with shooting a young man dead and seriously injuring another. I’ve sympathy for all involved based on the basic facts. It’s an awful situation all round

Useless piece of shit deserved that bullet. Zero sympathy with these kind of people.

stepped over a line and deserved the outcome

There’s only one poster on here saying anything like that, and she came and went in the early hours.

Location of the burglar in relation to the gun safe is relevant also.

The rules on where you can locate the safe are very strict. The police come and check, if they're not satisfied with the location you have to move it. Ours had to be out of sight so usually they favour inside cupboards.

The keys must be hidden too. I don't hold a gun licence so am not allowed in the safe.

Reading this thread I'm not allowed a baseball bat beside the bed. Knives are out, pepper spray, which looking around leaves me with, hairspray, perfume, in their eyes, a hand mirror, a picture off the wall.

So I guess I just pray and let them get on with it.

Luckily last time we were burgled I was on the afternoon school run, so the house was empty. That was distressing.

The time before that I was home with two small children in bed the dog we had went for them and they fled over a six foot fence, into a tree.

The terrifying reality of being confronted by three armed people in your home in the middle of the night would be absolutely central to any trial here, based on the facts as I very superficially understand them.

The law is that you can use reasonable force to defend yourself in your home, but CPS guidelines also state:
"Where you are defending yourself or others from intruders in your home it might still be reasonable in the circumstances for you to use a degree of force that is subsequently considered to be disproportionate, perhaps if you are acting in extreme circumstances in the heat of the moment and don’t have a chance to think
about exactly how much force would be necessary to repel the intruder: it might
seem reasonable to you at the time but with hindsight, your actions may seem
disproportionate. The law will give you the benefit of the doubt in these
circumstances."

www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

The poster who believes they have insider knowledge has actually raised a good point. If , as she alleges, it was well known locally that the farmer was a wife beating, dog killing, gun fanatic, then why on earth would the teenagers consider going to his property at that time in the middle of the night ? If you think someone at the property is an angry/ bad tempered, shotgun owner, surely you would give it a swerve ?