to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

that i can understand, what were the criminal records of the suspects ?

They have never been in trouble before. They are teenagers. They didn’t go with weapons. It’s being called aggravated as the farmer was at the property. These were young lads making stupid decisions and it’s cost them their lives. He was waiting with the gun. Waiting to shoot them in their backs as they ran for their short lives.

much appricated for the update,

According to the CPS website, aggravated burglary means having some kind of weapon, not someone being 'in the house'.

Did they make 'stupid decisions' twice in 10 hours?

I smell 🐃 💩

How the hell did it take the police so long to get to them? The daughter should have been saved: the mother did all that she could do keep him from her.

I'm biased. I've worked with teenagers. Most are lovely. The minority who have done awful things had never been in trouble before their first offence.

Saying that someone has never been in trouble before counts for very little and doesn't help their victims.

It would be nice if you could have the same level of sympathy and understanding for the victim (ie the farmer) in this story...

You seem to know an awful lot of information 🤔

However you are incorrect.
Aggravated burglary means entry as a burglar with a weapon or whilst in the property but before the offence of burglary is committed the burglar arms himself with a weapon.

You should be careful. Spreading information like this on a public forum with information that may or may not be true which you state is within your own personal knowledge but not released by the police could prejudice any future trial

If someone breaks into your house then they’re fair game. If you want to go around robbing people then that’s the chance you take I’m afraid.

Not quite the same but I had an incident where someone was in my house in the middle of the night. I was fucking terrified, and I am not a confrontational or bolshy person at all. But when I was upstairs, on my own with my kids sleeping in their rooms, I sprung into defence mode, grabbed my dressing gown and ran downstairs, but by the time I got there the ‘visitor’ had legged it, leaving the front door wide open.

My point is, it’s a natural human instinct to defend yourself and your home. You don’t have time to think, you just do. If anyone had asked me what I’d have done in that situation before it happened, I’d have said hide in a wardrobe or something, but that’s not what my instincts told me I had to do.

If (and us a big if) any of this is true why were they robbing him in the first place? For the second time?
No one deserves to die but they should have thought about this before they broke in with a weapon. Its easy to google aggravated burglary and see that it is when a weapon is used.
My sympathies are with the farmer.

No sympathy for the burglars if they were not doing anything illegal he would have still been here today. Totally on the farmers side. You play with fire you get burnt. Shouldn't have been trespassing on someone's property and up to no good.

All my sympathy goes to the farmer. You go into a house to steal and you have a weapon, you are knowingly ready to take a life. Being stopped by lethal force is just the result when one acts without thinking of consequences and feeling you are ablove the law.

You mean, they had never been CAUGHT before. Obviously, this was not their first rodeo. This is just the first time they found out there are consequences for criminal behavior.

How do you "know" so much about this? One of the burglars your child or a relative?

The police haven't put that info out there.

The only way you know this is if you were there.

I sincerely doubt you were there.

You do not know this, you simply think you know this. It means anything else you think you know is also in doubt. Unless you saw with your own eyes, you do not know. I suspect you're being fed total bullshit by someone linked to the criminals involved.

Aggravated burglary absolutely is not simply that there was someone on the property (although that does increase the seriousness of the offence)...

CPS define it here:

“A person is guilty of aggravated burglary if they commit any burglary and at the time has with them any firearm or imitation firearm, any weapon of offence, or any explosive.”

That is not simply turning up at a property that has someone in it, that is not driving into someones yard and getting lairy either.

Other factors that make this a more serious crime with a higher potential sentence..

That there was someone in the property.
That there were a group of offenders not just one.
That this was planned in advance.
Potentially, that this was a second attempt at this crime.

Tellingly, the farmer has been released on bail which he would not have been had there been anything even vaguely concrete to charge him with at this point

I've made a "mistake" or 10.

NEVER have I mistakenly burgled someone's home.

I agree there needs to be full investigation and trial. But right now I cannot go "poor boy" and "horrid farmer".

They paid the ultimate price for their actions but when you play with fire .....

Information the police have shared?

In what capacity? Just to local people? Nothing in the press, not to anyone who isn’t local?

a mate of yours in the police shared it to you personally? The same one who isn’t sure what aggravated burglary is?

and all this detail has been publicly released, which is a clear attempt at painting the burglars as just innocent boys who did something silly? Seems very biased to me. not really a good idea if there’s going to be a trial.

@RLaurelG aleo, not all of our children and young.

We know children and young adults make mistakes. I have an adult daughter. Slightly older than these men that committed burglary.

and I was a young adult. Breaking into someone’s house with a weapon isn’t not a mistake, it’s deliberate act that is designed to harm people. It takes forethought and planning. And many active decisions.

Trying to paint them as kids who were doing something innocent where something you couldn’t have predicted happened, doesn’t help anyone.

"AllyCart · Yesterday 19:48

berksandbeyond · Yesterday 19:45

Fuck around and find out 🤷🏼‍♀️
One less scumbag in the world
I hope the farmer gets off Scot-free
I agree.

If he ended up being charged and I was on the jury I'd find him not guilty."

And THIS is exactly why trial by jury is not a fair trial. You haven't even heard any fact of the case and you've decided to find him not guilty. Brilliant. What a ridiculous bloody world we live in

"JudgeJ · Yesterday 20:01

KimberleyClark · Yesterday 13:50

Plenty of people thought Jean Charles de Menezes deserved to be shot because he’d overstayed his visa.
Show quote history
In light of what had been happening around London that day running from the police because you're an illegal wasn't too clever. Had he been yet another bomber and the police had done nothing the same people criticising them would have been asking why they did nothing."

Ah right. Yes so he deserved it then.

Breaking into someone’s house with a weapon isn’t not a mistake, it’s deliberate act that is designed to harm people. It takes forethought and planning. And many active decisions

A weapon, in the case of "aggravated burglary" is anything that can be used as a weapon, hammer or screwdriver to a firearm.

It would be up to a jury to decide the intent if it was the former ie the "weapon" was used to break in or was it going to be used to cause harm?

Does your crystal ball tell you which was the case her

But regardless, no one on here knows the exact circumstances of how the men were shot, was it a pre planned ambush, with the men running away after the first man shot OR was the farmer being threatened and in genuine fear of his life?

We don't know but what this thread does show is that the general public should never be allowed to carry personal firearms.