to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

Because people have very poor reading comprehension skills, an inability to think rationally once caught up in vigilante fervour, and an inability to imagine any unintended consequences of allowing householders to kill intruders (and, for the hard of thinking, anyone they say they thought was an intruder) without any risk of punishment.

Yup I mean the rules exist for a reason but most people I know who require gun safes have them all bolted upstairs within units/wardrobes/bathroom cabinets. So providing the would be thief wakes you before entering there is plenty of time to unlock and grab, which again more have alarms along boundaries. Also helps fit with out of the view of house guests by having them upstairs out of coffee visit views.

By within units I mean backless bolted into brick walls 😅 not just your general bathroom toothpaste cabinet haha

For FFS he has been released ON BAIL and has not been charged with anything. That is the only fact we have.

If he’d been growing drugs then he would have been charged with that.

And as for the ‘he hit his ex partner and has shot a couple of dogs’ what relevance even if this is true does it have to anything? Being an arsehole doesn’t make him guilty of murder. If dogs were attacking his sheep he has every right to shoot them anyway.

In terms of the gun cabinet, he may well have been aware of them approaching. Therefore giving him time to get the gun out. Farms often have long drives and cctv.

That's a good idea, unfortunately I'd have to cross the hall to get to the bathroom.

Several years ago I read the statistic that for every time a burglar is prosecuted for a burglary in England and Wales there are on average 40 burglaries committed by that burglar for which he has not been prosecuted. I imagine that statistic is even worse now.

Teenage males are responsible for a huge amount of very serious crime in this country. 'Youth' doesn't necessarily mean innocence when it comes to crime, it often means prolific and devastating. Most crime is committed by young males. The fact that the dead burglar in this case was young just means that he had decades of causing misery ahead of him. 'Nice lads' do not commit burglaries. Like most criminals he was someone pretending to be nice when that was to his advantage. The social media rumours about the farmer aren't really relevant because, even if you are a villain yourself, having an armed gang turn up at your remote house in the middle of the night is still terrifying and you and your family could still end up at their mercy.

The poster who believes they have insider knowledge has actually raised a good point. If , as she alleges, it was well known locally that the farmer was a wife beating, dog killing, gun fanatic, then why on earth would the teenagers consider going to his property at that time in the middle of the night ? If you think someone at the property is an angry/ bad tempered, shotgun owner, surely you would give it a swerve ?

Quite. Although I suspect it is libel from a disgruntled friend or relative of the criminals.
Or possibly people were allowing their dogs to worry and attack his livestock and he legally reacted to protect them?

Whether the farmer is a ‘nice man’ or not has literally no relevance to the case. Just like the burglars being ‘nice lads really’ doesn’t.

We can be certain there weren’t loads of drugs at the property, however.

Yes, my husbands safe is upstairs. Bolted to the external wall but hidden inside a wardrobe in the spare room.

The police come every year and are happy where it is.

Finally somebody highlights the fact that the police don’t do anything!! They will just tell you to claim on insurance which may likely never pay out. The victim has to deal with this invasion (sometimes violent) into their home and sanctuary.

If you break into my house, and I felt threatened I would shoot you. Although I’d aim for the legs.

That was my exact point. I was talking to the poster that is saying they know for a fact these boys didn’t have a weapon and weren’t in the house

We know there’s reasonable evidence they had something that could be used as a weapon as that’s what the others have been charged with. We know they were attempting to break in.

Doesn’t matter if it’s screwdriver. Are you seriously suggesting the people breaking in the second time were above using what they had with to harm someone if it came to it?

Besides which harm isn’t the only harm. Being a victim of burglary causes a lot of emotional distress. Repeated burglary’s cause intense distress. Even something like PTSD. You don’t think that’s worth worrying about? Only physical harm matters?

That poster claimed facts that she had been told by the police. Called the burglary ‘just a mistake’ and described them as boys. These were men who made a decision to do something they knew would cause harm to the property owner.

The things I talked about are what, so far is known.

Called the burglary ‘just a mistake’ and described them as boys.

If you take the word ‘just’ out then that is pretty factually true to be fair. In fact it was a very big mistake.

While I doubt the posters claiming insider knowledge are real, if this was true the context/ way it was said is everything.

Although I suspect it is libel from a disgruntled friend or relative of the criminals.

More than likely the case. There's an person who's initials just happen to be RG saying almost identical things on various Facebook posts about this incident.

That person's husband is also offering to meet anyone who disagrees with their views at the local tesco for a fight, so if this is the same poster it gives an insight into the mentality.

I think that poster was true. But talking shit about what the police told them directly. Especially, since they talked incorrectly about the charge.

But it’s not a mistake, imo, it was a series of decisions knowing there would be a negative outcome. They knew their actions would have a negative outcome. They simply didn’t care.

Ah that explains a lot

I don't know what the intent was, i don't know if they had a screwdriver or a machete.
We don't even know if the men shot had any weapon, only the man arrested on the A6 has been charged with such.

We also don't know if the men were in the house, in the yard/outbuilding, threatening the farmer or running away when shot.

I ve no sympathy for the robbers at all but i also think that praising a man who has killed and seriously injured two people without knowing the full facts is stupid and ignorant.

I don’t disagree with them making decisions/ not caring etc. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t a mistake as well though.

that praising a man who has killed and seriously injured two people without knowing the full facts is stupid and ignorant

Most people on his side are not praising him, they are just saying that he has the right to defend himself and that the burglars shouldn’t be burgling.

If you break into someone’s property, you in tend to harm them.

You cause them emotional distress at the very least. That’s harm. Not to mention time and effort to sort things out or financial harm.

You can not break into someone’s property and not cause harm. They intended to cause harm, even if not physical.

And at no point have I praised the farmer. So that’s irrelevant.

That person's husband is also offering to meet anyone who disagrees with their views at the local tesco for a fight, so if this is the same poster it gives an insight into the mentality.

Think of all the money that would save on jury trials. Down the Tesco for a bare-knuckle square go instead.

Read the thread? plenty of people praising him.

Of course people have the right to defend themselves BUT we simply do not know if he was doing that in a proportional way or acting like Charles Bronson in Vigilante

If he confronted them in his house and they were armed with knives then of course he was justified, on the other hand they were running away having seen his gun but he shot them both in the back, then no he wasn't.

The facts will eventually come out.

Running away… from his house… which they were attempting to rob whilst armed. Yeah, he’s still justified.

There are people saying he should get a knighthood! In what world is that not praise?