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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

1000 replies

itsjustataste · 03/05/2024 23:34

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

Marcus Smith

Whaley Bridge: Farmer held over burglary shooting death

The man is being detained on suspicion of murder following the shooting, the BBC understands.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
0sm0nthus · 04/05/2024 18:38

Because you aren’t in imminent danger if they are running away from you and you have the option to wait and only shoot if they start to turn to shoot at you
Of course!
BUT, I'd rather kill the intruder and face prison than wait and see who was quickest on the draw.

0sm0nthus · 04/05/2024 18:42

If there were harsher penalties for theft and burglary maybe there'd be fewer of them
Maybe, or maybe thieves would routinely shoot people knowing it would make no difference to the penalty? My point really is that these are very thorny issues, arguably inequality is an underlying contributing factor to many crimes.

Viviennemary · 04/05/2024 18:50

I just read the suspect had been bailed. That's a bit unusual for a murder suspect isn't it.

TheaBrandt · 04/05/2024 18:54

Safer for the householder to assume the burglar is a rapist / torturer than to have to find out the hard way that’s he’s not just a run of the mill cheeky chappie “nice lad” 🙄 burglar

GreatGateauxsby · 04/05/2024 18:59

I feel sorry for the farmer.

he was probably terrified, I would be.

because of their moronic and lawless actions he now has to live with the fact he killed someone.

RawBloomers · 04/05/2024 19:00

Viviennemary · 04/05/2024 18:50

I just read the suspect had been bailed. That's a bit unusual for a murder suspect isn't it.

No.

Elephantswillnever · 04/05/2024 19:02

Viviennemary · 04/05/2024 18:50

I just read the suspect had been bailed. That's a bit unusual for a murder suspect isn't it.

I don't think so given the circumstances. I mean you have to presume innocence and bail will generally be granted unless you are considered a flight risk, likely to reoffend or will interfere with witnesses.

TerrysNeapolitan · 04/05/2024 19:07

I have a remote house and it's been broken into twice now and vandalised. Totally with the farmer.

EsmaCannonball · 04/05/2024 19:07

Talk of reasonable force and proportionality is all very well in the cold light of day but if a gang of armed men break into your remote house in the middle of the night you have no idea if they have plans to rape, torture or kill and you have to assume the worst. We've all read stories about horrific home invasion burglaries or know people it has happened to. My elderly aunt decided to move into a retirement home after her elderly neighbour was raped and murdered by a burglar. She knew it was just random chance that it wasn't her and it totally robbed her of her peace of mind and enjoyment of the home she had lived in for almost 60 years. The parents of this man are more to blame for their son's death than the farmer is.

Djxjsnsbsbsbs · 04/05/2024 19:11

I have American friends. In the red states it's fine to kill burglars. They have stand your ground laws.

SammyScrounge · 04/05/2024 19:11

With the number.of teens and young men going about with knives stabbing people, the farmer cannot.be.blamed for thinking the worst and opening fire.
As for the families of the.boys, why hadn't they taught their worthless sons not to carry weapons, not to steal, not to terrorise people in their own homes?

TerryFuckwit · 04/05/2024 19:12

Djxjsnsbsbsbs · 04/05/2024 19:11

I have American friends. In the red states it's fine to kill burglars. They have stand your ground laws.

Quite right too.

Djxjsnsbsbsbs · 04/05/2024 19:14

TerryFuckwit · 04/05/2024 19:12

Quite right too.

My friend in Boston shot and killed an intruder.

Faces no negative consequences. Florida police even recommend shooting and killing the intruder to save the taxpayer and offer gun safety classes

EsmaCannonball · 04/05/2024 19:15

OneTC · 04/05/2024 14:24

And prison is a known occupational hazard of vigilantism

The farmer didn't choose to be in this situation. The burglars visited all this upon him and themselves.

agent765 · 04/05/2024 19:19

0sm0nthus · 04/05/2024 18:42

If there were harsher penalties for theft and burglary maybe there'd be fewer of them
Maybe, or maybe thieves would routinely shoot people knowing it would make no difference to the penalty? My point really is that these are very thorny issues, arguably inequality is an underlying contributing factor to many crimes.

Inequality?

I'm clearly missing your point. Most decent people can feel envy if some people have more than them. They wouldn't go and rob them, though.

The thieves I see being reported on the news aren't stealing a can of tuna and a can of corned beef to feed their families (as one local woman was actually jailed for about 35 years ago, despite being a single mum of two young children with benefits accidentally stopped). They're stealing high-end items to flog on. Most likely to buy pricey items to show off with on SM.

Hardly inequality.

Even if it was, it isn't an excuse to steal other people's property. Many, many people are living on the edge these days. Though the 'edge' these days isn't anything like the edge of my childhood where my mum went into labour early with my sister while coal-picking for the fire from the tip behind us. I suppose that could be considered stealing despite it being waste. Decent people these days don't steal either.

And, yes, harsher penalties for theft and burglary are needed. People are getting pissed off with scumbags robbing shops, putting staff and shoppers in danger and causing price rises for everyone from the shopper paying for items to the shopkeeper losing stock and having insurance premiums hiked.

Ask any burglary victim how they felt coming home to a robbed and frequently trashed home. I think every one of them would be happy to see a harsher punishment, too.

I'm not talking punishment on the scale of more serious crimes like rape, manslaughter or murder but more than a slap on the wrist and a stern telling off not to do it again. If a thief thinks he may as well kill anyone getting in the way, maybe we should re-think sentences for those crimes being increased as well.

A local woman was murdered by her ex-partner who got out in 12 years. I feel for her parents just like I feel for the farmer who did what most of us here would do to protect our families and property.

notacooldad · 04/05/2024 19:23

My post at 14.39.
notacooldad · Today 14:39
It matters to know whether they were a threat to the family as most burglars are not.
If unknown to you people are wandering round your house at 1.20am I would think it's safe to assume they are a threat to you especially if you disturb them.
They had no right to be there and was only there to commit a crime against the farmer.
In that situation I hope I would do everything I can to protect my family
You dont know the mindset of these low life's, whether they are off their tits on drugs,out for a kill thrill or what.
If this idiot hadn't been skulking around in someone else's gaff, it would have happened

I missed out an important wording the last sentence!
It would Not have happened.
The bloke put himself in danger no one else. If you play with fire, don't be surprised if you get burned!🤷‍♀️

agent765 · 04/05/2024 19:28

EsmaCannonball · 04/05/2024 19:07

Talk of reasonable force and proportionality is all very well in the cold light of day but if a gang of armed men break into your remote house in the middle of the night you have no idea if they have plans to rape, torture or kill and you have to assume the worst. We've all read stories about horrific home invasion burglaries or know people it has happened to. My elderly aunt decided to move into a retirement home after her elderly neighbour was raped and murdered by a burglar. She knew it was just random chance that it wasn't her and it totally robbed her of her peace of mind and enjoyment of the home she had lived in for almost 60 years. The parents of this man are more to blame for their son's death than the farmer is.

I don't blame your aunt.

It's bad enough that most women have a lot to fear just going about our lives but a man willing to rape an elderly woman on the loose would make me move somewhere safer, too.

Also, most elderly people do become more fearful in general as they get older. Bad experiences, direct or indirect, compound that fear. Peace of mind is so important.

OneTC · 04/05/2024 19:30

EsmaCannonball · 04/05/2024 19:15

The farmer didn't choose to be in this situation. The burglars visited all this upon him and themselves.

Agreed that the dead bloke is at fault but also agree with the law they if you kill someone you will be investigated and possibly jailed. Given the varying outcomes of similar cases at trial it's not like it's a given that the farmer is going to get shafted

TheNoonBell · 04/05/2024 19:31

FAFO.

Babymamaroon · 04/05/2024 19:35

I believe 100% you should be legally allowed to protect yourself, your family and your property.

On your head be it should you break the law and terrorise someone in their own home.

The risk run is you leave in a body bag.

dapsnotplimsolls · 04/05/2024 19:37

There was a burglary reported in the afternoon and then another around 10 hours later. If he was sitting up with a shotgun waiting for them to come back then he'll probably be charged with murder - pre-meditation.

DoreenonTill8 · 04/05/2024 19:41

ironedcurtain · 04/05/2024 18:19

While perhaps the outcome was inevitable, I think it's more than a little sad. It's awful.

I think classism plays a role in MN saying stuff like "the thieving little scrote/worm/etc deserves to die" – would they have said the same for e.g. an Eton or Bullingdon Club dare gone wrong? No, they'd be simpering in sympathy.

No matter how awful the teen's actions were, it's not like I believe in the death penalty as a punishment, especially for actions at that age. However I don't blame the farmer obviously as his intention was presumably just to defend not to kill.

Do you think there's been many 'dares' like the behaviours of the robbers?

AllyCart · 04/05/2024 19:42

dapsnotplimsolls · 04/05/2024 19:37

There was a burglary reported in the afternoon and then another around 10 hours later. If he was sitting up with a shotgun waiting for them to come back then he'll probably be charged with murder - pre-meditation.

That's not how it works.

🙄

berksandbeyond · 04/05/2024 19:45

Fuck around and find out 🤷🏼‍♀️
One less scumbag in the world
I hope the farmer gets off Scot-free

Newestname002 · 04/05/2024 19:46

IdaPrentice · 03/05/2024 23:41

Yes, especially as in a rural area, you're unlikely to get a quick response from police if there are armed burglars in your house. You're basically on your own.

It's a difficult one though. The punishment for burglary isn't the death penalty.

It's a difficult one though. The punishment for burglary isn't the death penalty.

The troubles, though, that you don't 100% know that it will "just" be burglary. Also if you're running on fear and adrenaline you're unlikely to be thinking logically anyway. 🌹

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