to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

@Blondiebeachbabe I really hope you're not serious. That's not a country id want to live in.
Why don't you move to the US. I reckon you'd fit right in in Texas.
What if your child was wrongly accused of a crime one day? Would you think "oh well I'll just take one for the team"? I mean you'd get financial compensation in 10 years or so when they found out the conviction was unstable. That sounds fair right?

Because it's not the behaviour of a civilised society

Not just a person though, a burglar. Good.

Neither was the behaviour of Brady and Hindley.

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

In the Deep South it was easy to tell who was In and who Out. In 21st century UK, we have investigations, and a trial.

Could not agree with this more. Seems that they had attempted to steal items the night before, failed and come back for a second try. I image he’d called the police and been given a reference number and no more help. Probably if he’d accused someone of a non-crime hate crime they’d have sent a squad car and detectives. Poor man. I would have done the same, shame on our country and its absurd laws/ ineffectual police force that home owners risk jail simply for protecting themselves.

Imagine

That'll explain the prison time

Because it's not the behaviour of a civilised society

If you want a civilised society you need to police it properly. That's not being done at the moment. People are not safe, they're not being protected. The authorities are not keeping up their end of the bargain, and this is where it leads.

So where does it stop if we start allowing the shooting dead of burglars? Cutting the hands off shoplifters? Stringing up drink drivers?

But we don't know if that charge is a fair reflection of the actions of the three men, what weapon(s) they had with them or what they were doing when they were shot at.

Oh come on, they weren’t visiting bringing gifts were they! What do you think they were doing there?!?!
Three criminals broke into this poor farmers house in the middle of the night with weapons!

I don't think shooting a burglar is wrong if you could reasonably think they pose a physical threat to you or your family and other attempts to get them to leave are either impractical or don't work.

Hello lovely burglars, could you please leave my property, pretty please 🙏?

So what attempts to get them to leave do you suggest we all make, if we find 3 armed burglars in our home? 🙄

How civilised we are, with our decadent, misguided, indulgence of criminals. I am less restorative justice and more Old Testament in my thinking about the punishment of criminals.

Besides, if nothing else, why should we waste money keeping such people alive? Surely they forfeited any rights by torturing, raping and murdering children?

I think the issue here is that the police do nothing, and everyone knows it.

If the police had more resources to catch criminals, and criminals were held responsible, things would be less desperate.

As it is, burglaries are not investigated, criminals are not afraid of consequences and individuals are left to defend their own property.

This is a government issue.

There are no winners in this situation. A young man has lost his life, and the farmer's life as he knew it, is over.

I am genuinely sorry for all involved.

This is sub judice, I think. I feel sorry for the farmer but if the burglars were running away he is in deep trouble. If they were facing him then his only defence is that he was in fear of his life, or there was someone else (e.g. wife, children) whose safety he feared for. Force must be proportionate. Most of us do not have a gun in the house, though when I found an intruder at 2 a.m. my husband chased him down the stairs with a heavy stick - did not catch him, thank goodness! Police called and brought dogs but he was long gone.

Most burglars are opportunists and petty theives.

Armed burglars who return to a place they previously attempted to burgle are clearly in another category.

Let's not lump them all together.

There is hardly any information in the article.
Was the farmer defending himself? Seems unlikely if he's to be tried for attempted murder?
Did the burglars threaten the family? Were they there to harm the family or only to steal from them?

The punishment for stealing is not death.
People can defend themselves or others if personally attacked, but not kill others because they're taking their belongings.

I do agree with this, but still can't support the state killing people no matter what they've done

Apart from anything else it can be argued it's an easy way out for offenders, whereas a properly long sentence in the right surrroundings may well be better retribution by far

I agree the police let normal people down daily

But the death penalty isn't ever the correct option.

Like I said I feel zero sympathy for the dead bloke, but you shoot someone and get caught, you're gonna have some explaining to do

Apparently these 3 men had weapons themselves. They were not just ‘burglars’, who generally rob empty homes, but home invaders who may well have made the owner fear for his own life. This is nothing to do with protecting his property.

Was he supposed to just let them attack him and/or murder him? There have been many cases of people murdered in their own home by ‘burglars’.

Agreed. But they will cry "what about my human rights?", even though the crimes they committed were inhumane. Only human when it suits.

The lad was local to the property which makes it very difficult as there are family and friends of him locally who are grieving and now taking that out on the farm owner and also family and friends of the property owner on the other side. Very very messy situation.

That’s Neanderthal thinking, and completely ignores the fact that had the burglary not happened, a life wouldn’t have been lost. Really disgusting behaviour and evidence of the dregs of society having no morals (or intelligence). Our laws are weak, and it must be frightening for rural properties knowing blue lights are many, many minutes away. Entering someone else’s property/land without consent should automatically mean you are breaking the law and the owner can protect as they see fit - including the use of firearms.

Team farmer. Justice was served and anyone who breaks into a farm anyway would know there'd be guns in the property. So the fact the scum went armed themselves shows their intentions.

" Most burglars do not want anything to do with violence and will run off if they find someone awake (as happened to me the time I was burgled while home). If, as a petite woman, you shot a fleeing burglar in the back, I don't think that would be reasonable, however big he was and whatever weapon he had (probably - though someone might come up with something that would change my mind on that)."

It's exactly. Most of them are a threat to your belongings, not to you.

"Entering someone else’s property/land without consent should automatically mean you are breaking the law and the owner can protect as they see fit - including the use of firearms."

Entering someone's land?? Are you mad??? Someone mistaken about a public footpath and accidentally walking on someone's land should be shot??!!

But people sometimes enter property through genuine mistakes.

Man guilty of murdering woman who mistook his Welsh home for B&B | Crime | The Guardian