to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

I've long held the belief that as soon as someone breaks into your property their human rights should be null and void. If that means they don't get out alive then so be it.

"the best type of burglar is a dead one"! WTF?? So you don't believe in a fair trial or even rehabilitation then?

Aggravated burglary means there was a weapon

I think the law is quite sensible about self-defence and takes into account the subjective perceptions of the accused. Defendants have been acquitted in cases where they killed someone who entered the house by mistake.

The only reason to hold the opinion you hold is because you're a)related to one of these dipshits. b)are in the of these dipshits c)are too stupid to understand that they would hage happily broken in to your house too, and done whatever it was they were going to do. And presuming you didn't have a way of defending yourself, who knows what the outcome would be.

You're either one of these people or a potential victim of these type of people. It's as simple as that. If that robber was alive and you met him do you think he would think of you as a human? He would see you as a target and that is all. Yout life, your fear, trauma etc are irrelevant, and doing that to you would be fine for people like him, for what the prospect of getting £50?

I live in shitty area (I move next month thank god) and honestly I see these people around a lot and they are utter arseholes.

I'm team farmer. I've got friends and family who are farmers and they constantly worry about being broken into. The equipment, vehicles, machinery and live stock that they own is all very costly (you wouldn't believe the cost of a new combine or tractor).

It's sad that someone got shot, but the guys involved in this burglary would have been old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. I think that we can all safely bet that they hadn't gone over there to sell Avon or Boy Scout cookies...and that they hadn't been invited over by the farmer/his family....and that they hadn't got lost in the area and were knocking to ask for directions. They were trespassing on a property that they knew they had no business being on, and it's reported that they were there for aggravated burglary, so had equipment on them that could be used as weapons. Also appears that this was the second burglary attempt on the farm in just a few hours. If they had stayed at home, or gone to play football, or DJed at the pub/whatever, instead of doing what they did that night, then one of them wouldn't have been shot and killed, and another wouldn't have been shot and injured.

In late 2010, not too far from where I live, a guy was killed on his farm during a botched burglary. The burglars left him for dead and he was found dead by the farmworkers showing up the next morning for work. The poor bloke lived on the farm with his elderly mother. It was an awful case, and my heart went out to the farmer and his family.

I hope that this farmer doesn't get into trouble.

There’s some incredibly vindictive people on here.

Quite right too. The country is now rid of a lowlife thieving piece of shit. Damned good riddance.

There are. I find this thread genuinely terrifying.

I have not read the whole thread and I am local - know this area and the road very well. Has anyone questioned why these lads/ scrotes went twice to the farm and why they had arms. Did they know the farmer? The farmer got rid of his dairy herd a few years ago. Is the farmer innocent of any other crimes? Is this all part of a bigger organisation? Nothing is as it it seems and while on the face of it the sympathy will lie with the innocent farmer - you do have to ask - is he innocent of everything. Yes I have no sympathy with the burglars although it is very sad when a young person loses their life and has obviously been involved in crime. But I am not convinced that the farmer is totally innocent - I think he had something worth an awful lot of money for those lads and I don’t think for one second it was a tractor. BTW we don’t have combine harvesters in Derbyshire

"the best type of burglar is a dead one"

Definitely. What are their chances of reoffending?

Why assume? Why not keep an open mind until the facts are known?

There are rumours on this thread and elsewhere about what the target of the theft might have been. Many things are possible at this stage.

Quite right too. The country is now rid of a lowlife thieving piece of shit. Damned good riddance.

Jesus Christ. You can see how we get politicians like Braverman and Patel in place can't you?
Shoot them! Send them to Rwanda! Wow.

No I don't know any "little shits" btw. And yes I have been burgled. When I lived alone.
Did I want the person who did it dead? No because I'm not a psycho. I DID put a wok by my bed for the next few weeks in case they came back. And obviously I'd have whacked them with it if they'd come in my bedroom at night. But I don't WANT anyone dead. And to be fair to the farmer I'm not saying he did either because you know I DONT KNOW THE FACTS.
If he was defending himself or his family then yes fair enough. If it was retribution as the guys tried to escape as so many on here seem to think is fine then he is a MURDERER. And that trumps burglar in the evil shit stakes.

I wondered the same - doubtless more will be learned in time - but "what a wonderful guy he was" has started already. From the Manchester Evening News:

"Local pub, the Shoulder of Mutton, posted a public tribute on social media, which read: "Myself and all the staff at the Shoulder of Mutton, Chapel en le Frith would like send our utmost deepest sympathies and condolences to the family and friends of Marcus Smith"
"He was a Resident DJ here and we are devastated at your loss he was much loved by everyone who met him, he was a funny, polite, well mannered, charming young man who will be extremely missed by everyone, our thoughts, wishes and prayers to you all"

Somehow I doubt the farmer found him "funny, polite, well mannered and charming" ...

‘We don’t have combine harvesters in Derbyshire’ I assure you that you do. And it’s not just combines that are valuable to rural thieves, as has been said, a lot, on this thread. Perhaps farmer wasn’t quite squeaky clean, I wouldn’t know about that, but I’m not sure that changes all that much.

You absolutely do have Combine Harvesters in Derbyshire, not that it's got anything to do with the thread.

We've had a case where what was claimed to be a burglary gone wrong turned out to be a fight between two criminals known to each other. Hardly likely in this case though, is it?

I wish for your sake that those burglars had died before they got to you. Or never been born. It would have saved you a lot of suffering. Sadly some on this thread would disagree, but i can guarantee theyve never suffered a traumatic burglary. So are in the privileged position of wringing their hands over the scumbag burglars.

"If it was retribution as the guys tried to escape as so many on here seem to think is fine then he is a MURDERER. And that trumps burglar in the evil shit stakes."

Then we'll just have to disagree. I regard this scenario as the farmer doing society a massive favour by obliterating a vile, worthless piece of shit. Burglers are utter sub-human scum.

He absolutely shouldn’t be prosecuted. Hopefully the publicity around this will deter any other little scrats from doing similar.

Also, for those asking, stolen tractors/larger machinery are either stolen to order, where the new ‘owner’ doesn’t care where they came from/receives falsified documents, or they are taken to a pre-arranged location and stripped for parts which can be very easily sold on with no chance of being traced. Or taken on other transport to ports for export in some cases, albeit that’s much more rare.

Yes, and the idea that those of us not part of the baying vigilante mob must therefore have raised criminals or be unintelligent is quite bizarre.

We don’t have combines in the Peak District I can assure you too

I grew up around guns, as my Dad was an avid shooter. One night, just me and my sister were home, and there was an almighty crash downstairs, I honestly thought we had an intruder. I loaded my Dad's revolver and went down, fully willing to shoot any man that was there. Turned out the cat had knocked a load of dishes off the counter. So yes, I'm with the farmer here.

Had anyone ever got into my parents house, they would never have got out alive. My Dad had multiple guns and he didn't keep them locked in a cabinet like he was supposed to. He's 82 now, and we only just took them off him due to him having a few strange episodes.

I agree that this poor farmer will now not get to live a peacefully, because do-gooders will make his life a misery.

The guy that got shot is an idiot - anyone with half a brain knows that a farmer will always have guns. The stakes are high. He lost.

You live by the sword you die by the sword. The farmer should not do any time for protecting his property from armed thieves. That his his home and livelihood.

crime benefits no one.