to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

@Createausername1970 Agree, as someone who also had guns however he'd had a break in the night before by the sounds of it so I'm guessing he was anticipating trouble. Which may not go in his favour as would they class it as pre-meditated? Who knows. I'd still back him all the way.

Friends and family will always mourn their loss, very few people are all bad and they will only see the good and not the terror of his victims.
Not as dramatic but I was part of a group of people scammed by a local builder, we only lost a small deposit but he took others life savings and ruined their property. He died recently in a car accident (I strongly suspect speeding / joy riding) and social media is flooded with tributes to him as ‘a great lad’ !?!

My parents were the victims of an armed robbery (different country). My mother was woken up with a gun held to her head and a man demanding to know "where the money is". My father, who had been sleeping in a separate room due to snoring, came rushing through with his handgun. The robber shot at him and fortunately missed. He shot back, wounding the robber who then fled.

My mum was utterly traumatised, my dad could have been killed, there were bullet holes and large amount of blood in our family home. They were pensioners ffs.

So I have zero sympathy for anyone who knowingly chooses to terrorise and endanger innocent people.

At least in my dad's case there was no question of any arrest or prosecution, that was one small mercy.

Clarkson's Farm on Amazon prime will give you a good laymans understanding of how much tractors and new and used farm equipment costs. A second hand telly and handful of robbed smartphones aren't going to come anywhere close to the price of a tractor and farm equipment.

As a rough idea I've just been into the John Deere website, and picked what seemed like a relatively basic model. Fur every single option I picked the cheapest, or 'no extra cost' option. Now I know nothing about whether John Deere are average, to of the range, no idea, but a basic model was over £200,000 new.

My sympathy is with the farmer/ family. If you are going to break into a house you deserve what you get. I'm a bit tired of the narrative that all criminals are lovable scrotes who have had a hard time themselves and should be met with kindness and understanding. Had I been on a jury I wouldn't of convicted Tony Martin either tbh.

I too live in the same area that this incident took place and know the road well. It is desperately sad that a 19yr old lost their life but based on what we currently know, I don’t blame the property owner in the circumstances.

• It was the second day in a row that a burglary had been attempted (2 targeted burglary attempts in less than 10 hours).
• It was 3 burglars (plus a further 2 accomplices) Vs property owner.
• The burglars had weapons.
• The police response time in this area is poor.
• The road is narrow and rural.

The burglars were local (the 19yr old lived a very short distance away). They knew what they were doing was illegal and that there was a risk of getting caught/injured/shot - legally owned shotguns are fairly common in more rural areas like this.

It is incredibly sad that the young lad lost his life and I feel for his family’s sudden loss, but it seems it was the result of him taking an unnecessary risk. He knew his actions were wrong, being local he’d have known gamekeepers/farmers may own guns and the police are open minded that both burglary attempts were linked - so he may have know that occupant of the property would be terrified/on high alert already.

The situation for all concerned is so sad, but if the shots are later confirmed to have been fired in self-defence and the chain of events weren’t of the property owner’s making, I don’t think he deserves to be punished. The burden of having taken another persons life will overshadow the remainder of his.

Thank God we no longer have the death penalty in the UK. Look how many people are saying he deserved to die BASED ON NO ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAPPENED.
Bit tricky to resolve a miscarriage of justice once someone has been executed.

You live by the sword you die by the sword.

@Icantrememberthename

What is it that is being stolen? I don’t know farming well enough but can’t imagine what there is to steal.

Haven't read the full thread so I don't know if your question has already been answered, but if not, one thing that is stolen a lot is GPS-operated tractors, combine harvesters etc. They make tending the land more efficient (by avoiding missing areas/double-treating areas), but they're very expensive to replace if stolen.

Also, livestock and even crops can be stolen, or even just destroyed, sadly. During the winter, a farm near me had a barn full of hay to feed the sheep over the winter, burnt down. Even worse, somebody broke into a field one night and drove a car around, running over and killing many of the sheep 😢

Karma

They are making judgements on the information they have available. That's the great thing about opinions. They are like science, they can change based on new information coming to light. Nobody has ever asked anybody in modern justice to convinct anybody without all the information available. So your point is not only stupid but there's literally nothing to indicate any other circumstances that make this any different than the facts that have already been presented either.

It's amazing who is outing themselves has having raised little shits, the type who would break into somebodies home lol. You have to be related to one of these scumbags to hold any opinions other than the farmer did what he thought was best defending himself against 3 armed robbers.

No sympathy for the burglar.... if you break into someone's property, you deserve everything you get, including being killed. I've been burgled twice, and it's an awful feeling, and it's not come down on hard enough by the law.

All my sympathy is with the farmer, and imo, the law should be on his side. He is the victim, and he should have the right to protect his home by any means.

Nobody should ever break into somebody’s home and by doing so you accept the risks associated. Whether they “just” plan to steal a few hard earned items or whether they plan to rape and murder the people in the house won’t be known until it’s too late. And the trauma of the event will last with the victims forever. Very terrifying situation and you should definitely be able to defend yourself and your family against people breaking into your home, no less 3 people who are armed when your children are there.

With Tony Martin I think the issue why he got convicted was that he shot as killed someone as they were running away

A nicked TV can be worth worth a few hundred to 3k new, a tractor can be worth worth 100k+ new. A nicked TV will probably fetch £50. A nicked tractor can fetch 10k easy.

A quad, a gator, a few bits of equipment are relatively easy to steal, easy to sell and worth a lot of money.

Risk V Reward.

Yup, I can almost read it now.
I notice that he's only been described as a "footballer" who played with his local team, making me wonder what he did outside of that hobby. Was he in work (apart from as a burglar 🙄) or was he in education (doubt it or they'd have said "student"). I bet he was a waster who's been involved in "petty crime" or anti-social behaviour throughout his teens, but as you say, will be labelled a "loveable rogue" etc.

We don’t imprison people for life for burglary. Killing somebody on the other hand …

@Anotherparkingthread are you saying that I've raised "little shits" just because I haven't pre-judged the burglar as a wannabe rapist / murderer? Based on no evidence at all?
I think you're sort of proving my point here!!
You better hope if you're ever in court accused of something (whether you're guilty or you aren't!) that there aren't too many people like you on the jury!! Although maybe it would be good for society if there were. We could do with less people who approve of vigilante retribution based on nothing but hearsay in our midst.

Poor farmer who's had his life ruined by these scrotes. The best type of burglar is a dead one. Hopefully it'll deter others.

No sympathy at all for the burglars. Every sympathy for the farmer.

@Morph22010 I think the opinion of plenty on here is "who cares if he was running away?? Kill the bastard.

What we know is that some little scrotes decided to enter someone else's property without consent, and paid the price.

ZERO sympathy for the dead man. Total sympathy for the farmer.

That's really sad. I'm sorry they caused so much suffering. Burglars are the scum of the earth.

I do feel bad for the farmer btw. And if he really was defending himself/ his family then I hope he doesn't get found guilty of a crime.