AIBU to think that all the recent threads about benefits are heading too far towards online bullying?

[LeopardsRockingham]

The way disabled people are being treated and spoken about on here in recent days is disgusting. It is verging on online hate crimes and if ithey were about other marginalised groups would not have been allowed to stand by MNHQ.

The disinformation, the sneering, the complete lack of compassion from so many Mumsnetters is vile.

Disability for the very most part isn't something that people bring onto themselves. Parents don't do anything but have different luck to you and have a disabled child.

My genetics are different to yours so I have a fucked up immune system and the host of problems that has given me.

My DH had a horrific upbringing which has led him to have MH problems- he works by the way. I did too for a long time until my body couldn't cope.

My DC was injured at birth due to a hospital fault.

My neighbour fell off his bike and has a traumatic brain injury.

My friend has breast cancer.

My cousin is dead at 38 due to epilepsy.

My nephew is so unhappy due to his ADHD bot letting him fit in at school and my sister is having trouble helping him through it due to hers.

Why are we so unworthy to you?

Are we not due the same courtesy of online treatment as those of different races and religion...or does that go out the window as you pay for us?

@MNHQ why is it acceptable for you to allow your users to bully the marginalised on this site?

The job centres are already gearing up to implement them. I think it's a done deal.

Pip is separate, but they seem to being trying to amalgamate the two. I just see it being disastrous. I feel so so sorry for anyone that isn't a British healthy well paid citizen right now

Have to say, I am worried about Labour's policies too. We will have to wait and see.

Of course it's not a hate crime!

But who do you think the disenfranchised with no money will come after?!

I can understand that people don't care. What I don't understand is why they think they'll be protected from the mentally unwell people that suddenly have nothing. Or do you think they should all be locked up? Cos if you do, you're admitting they're unwell....

And I just don't get that thought process, it makes no logical sense to me.

I'm not even asking anyone to give their views on benefits, government spending, charity in monetary form.

All I was asking in my original OP was we as disabled people on MN or the parents of disabled children be recognised as a group of living human beings. Who have rights, who have feelings, who don't need to be othered and scorned and treated with absolute disregard and disrespect.

A lot of us were once you, you could be us.

It's just really disappointing to see over and over what you think of us

I completely agree with you.

I guess I was just looking further into why. I'm sorry x

Well given that ive been on the receiving end of the consequences when the abusive alcoholic downstairs couldnt pay for his booze then yeah

As I said in my post, I think we should have a socialist democracy where everyone has a guaranteed level of security. However, I am aware this is a belief, and other people think differently.

You are going to have to explain that a bit better please?

But the fraudulent claims are tiny and yet some people always place emphasis on them in a thinly veiled attempt to demonise a vulnerable demographic. It's utter nonsense because if they had ever had to apply for PIP they would be only too aware of how difficult it is to get.

That's what makes many of these posts ludicrous and the posters who make these claims a laughing stock.

If someone is of the political view that disability is part of the bad luck of life and we should be responsible for our own bad luck - ‘there’s no such thing as society’, as Thatcher might have put it. This doesn’t mean disabled people are not recognised as human - it means they subscribe to a different ideology and think the world would be better in a different economic model. Once again, I don’t agree - but I think it’s a bit hyperbolic to accuse people with a different political belief of not seeing you as a human. Rights and responsibilities are not innate, they are part of wider political and social consensus reached through debate and discussion.

Again, I agree, and I'm sorry if you think I was targeting you.

I just don't understand the thought process behind it.

This. Honestly this.

If you'd ever supported someone claiming pip you would see it's crazy to say it's easy. It's a full time job. It makes sick people sicker. It is not an easy process.

This.

People are talking about the reforms of PIP now.... but it was a awhile ago that the WCA of UC was being talked about being scrapped.

When you put all the plans together, it makes for very grim reading.

PIP being made harder to get...
WCA being scrapped and only people on PIP getting the sickness element of UC
If you are not on the sickness element of UC, you will be "fit" for work....
If you don't find work in 12 months, you will be sanctioned down to zero money.

I mean, that's fair enough but when the end result of your beliefs is that a substantial number of vulnerable people will starve and/or die (as has already happened to many people as a direct result of the benefit reforms so far) you also have to accept that many people will find that rather, well, distasteful and may declare them as such.

And I wish instead of framing their beliefs as 'Libertarian' or citing such feel good phrases as 'personal responsibility' they'd just come out and say that they wished the disabled would fuck off and die (or at the very least live in penuary so their 'lifestyle' doesnt offend the sensibilities of the hard working).

At least then disabled people wouldn't waste valuable time and energy trying to appeal to a capacity for caring that doesn't actually exist. Although, by my post you can probably tell I've already reaches that point.

Not directed at you, of course, being the socialist minded person that you declare yourself to be.

You’re mistaken and naive if you think the attempted curtailing of free speech is only an obsession among so called progressive on the left though. The right of the political spectrum is just as bad at curtailing free speech - and usually with more success - ie actually getting legislation through.

@LeopardsRockingham , I believe Mumsnet is particularly hot on any online abuse. I proposed a question not so long ago which I thought perfectly reasonable and Mumsnet deemed it unacceptable. Oh dear, clearly I should have phrased it better but my point is that the moderation here is extremely effective. I’m pretty sure that if any ‘hate crimes’ were occurring Mumsnet moderators would remove the content promptly.
It is not a hate crime by the way to question how benefits are allocated or if certain people/groups should receive those benefits.

Making verbal abuse and threats to me through my floor (his ceiling)

oh hang on heres that thread what i made......https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4877365-to-think-housing-associations-should-have-more-accountability-who-they-choose-to-allocate-homes-to

And those who think HA should only be for the most desperate and voted for the welfarisation of social housing are partly responsible

I think research shows that roughly 40% of UK households take out from the state more than they contribute in tax - and that is not including non working pensioners.. The cut off is around £35,000 I think.

People can vote for an unequal society where there is little or no safety net. We know from countries that have this that crime increases, well off people have to live in gated communities to be safe, and when tehy6 leave those gate communities they have to learn to ignore the visible poverty of others.
Most people do not want to live like this. Even for the well of a safety net makes sense.

I haven't said it is a hate crime to wish to pay or deny disabled people benefits.

I have said that comments and the number of other threads about disabled people and the comments about them that are allowed to stand are overwhelmingly negative. With so many posters whipped up into a frenzy over free money and jealousy over things they should never wish on their family. Whilst often berating the poster of being stupid, lazy, wishing practical eugenics on their children.

I have said these things would not be allowed against other groups of people. I stand by that.

Yanbu
It is very grim.
Not everyone can function well in our type of society.
That white paper is horrible reading. Suggesting to give vouchers or aids rather than cash? Dreadful paper.

Can’t we all try to support each other? Help those who struggle mentally. Aid those who struggle physically and we can all work together? We are all capable of being actively helpful. . Everyone has value and can contribute

I posted on the one where the lady was receiving over £5k a month with 2 disabled children one with downs.
I had a horrific day at work, have 3 hour daily commute am considered over average earner & private renter.
I was overly harsh to her & have been feeling guilty since but post is no longer taking any updates.
I'd like to say sorry but I still say that is an awful lot of benefits to receive when I get less than that after tax. Still I’m ashamed of my comment & can only hope the poster see’s this & accepts my apology.

One of my disabilities was actually caused by the NHS. A simple antibiotic that is prescribed by the million every year for uti's attacked my nervous system & left me virtually unable to walk. It took another 6 months of complaining for the doctors to start prescribing me a different one, I was having a uti about once a month. I worked from being 18 until I was 44, would have carried on working if I could, but I was finished due to the amount of time I was off sick. I had 5 operations in 9 months, each one they would find something else wrong, so I needed another op. I hate claiming benefits, but I have no choice.

You CANNOT claim benefits towards rent if you are living with family, so again this shows that people are just guessing and making things up to fit in with their narrative.