To de-arrange the funeral?

[Funeraldilemma1]

NC but reg poster.

An old person I’ll call Sam recently died. They were the parent of someone I’ll call Bob. Bob was severely neglected by Sam right from birth - his practical needs like feeding and washing not attended to with neighbours having to step in, frequently told he was unwanted, banned from the house if Sam had “company” over, I believe Bob spent some time in care but was never removed from Sam’s custody. They went NC around 30 years ago.

Sam has never acknowledged Bob’s existence. Gleefully told Bob he’d been written out of the will. Now they’ve died, some of the admin has fallen to a relative of Bob, as Bob can’t handle having any involvement due to lasting trauma. The relative has ascertained there may not be a will, and is going to deal with the admin and paperwork. Relative has been informed by friends of Sam that Sam wished for a lavish funeral, and had lots of local friends who liked them and want to attend a funeral, but these people never knew Sam had a child as they completely denied Bob’s existence. Sam’s friends have no idea of the abuse and neglect Bob endured.

Bob and his relative are not willing to arrange a funeral. They have said they don’t intend to carry out Sam’s wishes and want to cancel any pre-arranged plans Sam may have made. Friends of Sam feel this is cruel and they should “be the bigger people”. As there’s no will, Bob is legal next of kin so in a procedural sense he does have the final say but who is BU?

I’m joining the majority to say that you and Bob don’t have to organise a lavish send-off for Sam, @Funeraldilemma1. If Sam’s friends think she deserves it, they can organise and pay for it.

It depends a lot on which kind of stone you choose, which style of headstone, style of lettering, how many letters, and so on. A little gravemarker would be a lot cheaper than a traditional headstone. Location possibly also enters into it. I'm sure you can get a headstone for less than we're paying but there's really only one firm prepared to do it in the location, which is very rural and tricky to get to.

In most cases the responsibility of arranging a funeral will fall to the next of kin. The next of kin is identified as the person who was the closest living relative to the deceased at the time of death, such as a spouse, child or grandchild.

Copied and pasted from the Co-op website. It goes on to say friends can also do it. The LA will if their is no one else.
I'd just set about organising it, with or without Bob's input. Forget the friends.

If you underspend on the insurance policy will the money go to Bob? Even if it was lost, I’d still go the direct cremation route.

I'm really really hoping no will is found too. I hope Bob gets every penny he can & manages to somehow move on from knowing this awful person as a mother.
And yes I'd be doing the bare minimal. Sell the plot. Direct cremation. Scatter the ashes somewhere Bob will never have to go again.
I hope Bob has a lovely life now with people who love him.

Sam must be dead 3 or 4 days at least, nobody has come forward with a will, and no will has been found. I'm assuming you've been thought all the papers in the house.
I think it's safe to assume their isn't a will.

I would not be arranging a big funeral for Sam . I would arrange a direct cremation but I would then have her ashes buried in her plot if that's possible.
If her huge circle of friends want a lavish send off it would be up to them to arrange.
I do hope Bob inherits, but I'm sure he won't want any financial gain but rather look into donating to a charity to help support children who have suffered like he has .

It is possible to have the crematorium bury the ashes in the plot without any kind of ceremony or anyone other than the workers being present.

What would be the point, that involves paying for the crematorium and opening the grave.

Why not go Straight to burial?

I don't really know what causes the long waits in England for funerals, but I think it.might be a shortage of crematorium.

Just organise a burial if it's quicker. The less time for Bob and you to stress about it and less time for friends to put their oar in the better

They want it paid for from the money Bob will inherit though so Bob can say no and must do so.

If friends want to remember Sam they can arrange and pay for their own bash. I suspect we will then see how we'll liked he was or wasn't

You mean.. DIY?! .

I genuinely don't understand - unless do you mean no cremation at all? In which case I think the cost for digging a full grave for a coffin will be higher than for a box of ashes and will outweigh any savings on not being cremated.

This is an odd conversation, isn't it?

In England, anybody can arrange a funeral. Typically if there is no family member to do it. However if you do, you may be considered to have taken on the role of executor, or you might not reimburied for the cost, or someone may complain that you shouldn't have done it. It is a charge against the deceased estate, if any. I went to one council ("pauper's") funeral where the dead person has debts and no savings, and none of the family liked him and refused to contribute. A priest conducted at the graveside. There was no church service. He was not even allowed a headstone.

The funeral does not include the cost of a knees-up in the pub.

Bob/Bob's relative might want to think about direct cremation (info here https://www.sunlife.co.uk/articles-guides/funeral-planning/what-is-a-direct-cremation/) which might be a good solution for someone like Sam. If I was Bob's relative, I'd be very happy to think I'd be doing my bit for a child who had such an unpleasant mother.

Nobody can make him do anything. He can refuse to act. Then other arrangements will have to be made. We actually haven’t been told if Bob is the only beneficiary. That depends on how large the estate is and whether Sam has any other living relatives. Intestacy rules are complicated which is why it is always best to make a will. I think alot of assumptions have been made on this thread without sufficient information.

Just checked some facts and discovered an only child does inherit all their parents estate if there is no will however much it is. My mistake. I still maintain that no one can make Bob administer the estate. I would hope that there are rules to stop an already purchased burial plot being sold so the children can inherit more money. That doesn’t seem right to me on principle whatever the circumstances of the relationship.

Sam's mates can pay for their own drinks.

Best of luck to Bob, and I hope there is no will.

Assets are just asset, even if they are prospective holes in the ground.

The principle that a child deserves to be cared for is a lot more significant than what happens to a dead body, as long as no desecration occurs.

I actually looked into this. Bob is entitled to transfer ownership of the grave plot to himself and sell it, and I will be encouraging him to do so.

Well said.

Good for you. Ignore any sanctimonious shite suggesting you do otherwise.

That's nice of you to tell Bob what to do with his inheritance 🤣

Isn't it? 😂

Direct cremation. Scatter the ashes on the plot. Then sell the plot.
Someone said it yesterday and I'm saying it again now.

I suppose it depends on whether the express wishes that Bob get nothing could be counted as some kind of ersatz will that gives a clear (partial) statement of intent?

I don't know what would happen when somebody has specified who should NOT get their money but has also failed to say who SHOULD. It's all quite murky - morally, if not legally.