To de-arrange the funeral?

[Funeraldilemma1]

NC but reg poster.

An old person I’ll call Sam recently died. They were the parent of someone I’ll call Bob. Bob was severely neglected by Sam right from birth - his practical needs like feeding and washing not attended to with neighbours having to step in, frequently told he was unwanted, banned from the house if Sam had “company” over, I believe Bob spent some time in care but was never removed from Sam’s custody. They went NC around 30 years ago.

Sam has never acknowledged Bob’s existence. Gleefully told Bob he’d been written out of the will. Now they’ve died, some of the admin has fallen to a relative of Bob, as Bob can’t handle having any involvement due to lasting trauma. The relative has ascertained there may not be a will, and is going to deal with the admin and paperwork. Relative has been informed by friends of Sam that Sam wished for a lavish funeral, and had lots of local friends who liked them and want to attend a funeral, but these people never knew Sam had a child as they completely denied Bob’s existence. Sam’s friends have no idea of the abuse and neglect Bob endured.

Bob and his relative are not willing to arrange a funeral. They have said they don’t intend to carry out Sam’s wishes and want to cancel any pre-arranged plans Sam may have made. Friends of Sam feel this is cruel and they should “be the bigger people”. As there’s no will, Bob is legal next of kin so in a procedural sense he does have the final say but who is BU?

I recall a story of a woman whose abusive mother died across the country. She and her husband drove over for the service and cremation and headed for home again with the ashes. On the way she began crying. He asked what was wrong and she said she didn't want her mother's ashes in their home but she was an only child and didn't know what else to do with them. He knew about the abusive mother and the miserable childhood. So he stopped the car, took the urn, walked off the carriageway and down the slope to the bottom where there was a small stagnant pool. He emptied the ashes there, and took the urn back to the car and they drove off.

My husband's ashes, half of them anyway, are buried with one of his beloved cats in our backyard garden. The other half is here for when his other cat passes away.

Lots of options.

Oh yes!!!!

I do think the funeral could stir emotions in Bob.
So using the plot that's already been paid for might be better in that Sam's wishes are carried out and theirs no question over what to do with ashes.

Some on the thread are treating the body like a bit of trash.
Bob still needs to be able to live with decisions made. Not just now but for the rest of his life.

Bob would happily chuck the body in landfill if it was down to him and I don’t blame him. We’re still ascertaining if there’s a valid will. If there is, we’re going to let the executors deal with everything and step away completely. If not, we’ll be selling the burial plot and doing a direct cremation.

It's unclear what has been prepaid. There's no gain to anyone in refusing to use a prepaid burial. It would just be vindictive.

But Bob is under no obligation to attend or to arrange anything extra.

I am absolutely no help here regarding the funeral, if Bob has been no contact then I would continue this way and have nothing to do with it all.

could I recommend a book for Bob, it’s called ‘you’re not the problem‘ by Helen Villiers and Katie Mc Kenna x

How do you ascertain if their is a will?

Surely it's a bit like Nessy, if you can't find it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I know that, I was being facetious. Must be hell for Bob.

Though the ability to donate a body to medical science by relatives would I suspect bring about quite a bounce for med students.

I don't think you would even need to use the burial plot as I think a basic cremation would be cheaper than a basic burial - think there are regulations about construction of the coffin for burials whereas you can be cremated in a cardboard box. If Sam bought a plot I would look at selling it. You only need to meet basic legal requirements for disposal of the body, Sam doesn't deserve any more.

to Bob, this will be a difficult time for him he should look after himself and stuff what Sam's friends think. People who support abusers are despicable. Bob is lucky to have you to support him.

Oh, and don't bother collecting the ashes after the cremation. The crematorium staff will scatter the ashes in their garden of remembrance. Job done. No need to inter the ashes or pay out for a headstone. People like Sam don't deserve any memorial.

I think Bob should also be very careful, if Sam is that bad in life, they could still inflict more now,

Bob could end up with bills and the estate could be left elsewhere.

I would agree they should step completely away, even leave the country while it’s going in, if anyone opens their mouth then invite them to arrange it all and be sure to send them a postcard.

The cheek of it.

Leave the country......

Well that's easy... not

@3luckystars

Bob could end up with bills and the estate could be left elsewhere

How?

They could leave the county, or get out of town while the funeral is on. That’s what I meant.

sorry i might have misunderstood the post:

They have said they don’t intend to carry out Sam’s wishes and want to cancel any pre-arranged plans Sam may have made. Friends of Sam feel this is cruel and they should “be the bigger people”. As there’s no will, Bob is legal next of kin so in a procedural sense he does have the final say but who is BU?

I was thinking Sam had requested a funeral and big meal in hotel etc. but had not actually paid for anything.
Now Bob is expected to arrange this, and it’s been hinted at them at there is no will do Bob will inherit everything, so he should pay up for this last request.

Then a few weeks after the funeral, a will appears and everything has been left to the cats home, and Bob has been hurt again and stung for the cost of the funeral.

Thats what I understood (made up) sorry again if I was wrong.

The estate pays the funeral expenses before any legacy is passed on. If any wishes are recorded or a will is written then those wishes have to be carried out by the executors of the will. If Bob wasn’t speaking to his Mum presumably he isn’t in a position to administer the estate as an executor. Therefore he doesn’t have to do anything.

Out of interest, do you know what factors they look at when they decide whether or not they can use the body?

An elderly friend of ours died a few years ago, and he had signed up to leave his body to science, but they rejected it, so his family had to arrange a hasty funeral.

No it isn’t. Bob can’t have the money until the estate has been wound up and this can only happen once the body has been disposed of.

Good grief, Sam is an arsehole.

No obligation on Bob to do anything. A paupers funeral would be too much for their abusive, damaging biological parent.

No. They would only pay for one if there is money in the estate. You can’t simply say I don’t want to spend money on a funeral I want to keep it all for myself. That isn’t how it works.

This is a genuine wonder: can you say anything on a headstone (within reason, of course; i.e. no swearing!)? Does it have to be complimentary and/or express nice sentiments, or can it just be honest and factual?

I don't know if Bob would find it helpful at all for closure, but would it be theoretically possible to get a headstone with just her name and dates on it and 'unmourned mother', 'mother by virtue of biology only' or similar on it?

Terrible idea. It would be in the Daily Heil the next day.

No one is obligated to respect a deceased wishes in relation to the funeral, even if its in the will.

Some on the thread are treating the body like a bit of trash.

To be completely blunt, it is just trash now. A dead body is no use to anybody.

It's just that, in most cases where we are privileged enough to have shared a lot of love with the deceased person, the body is the final representation of those precious memories of them, with the ritual of disposing of it with sensitivity and reverence a strong symbol of that love and respect for them and our sadness at having lost them.

If you choose to act like heartless trash throughout your life, your body after death remains just that.

If Bob wasn’t speaking to his Mum presumably he isn’t in a position to administer the estate as an executor.

I don't think that follows at all. There is absolutely no question that Bob inherits all of Sam's assets after all debts are paid off (including the costs of cremating or burying Sam) given that Sam appears to have died intestate and Bob was her only child. The law in intestacy looks at the blood and legal relationships, not how well the parties were getting on. The OP has explained that she is a relative of Bob's and is supporting him by tackling the admin, as he can't cope with it, so possibly she may become the administrator, or it might be Bob legally, but the OP does all the actual legwork.

It does seem to me that a lot of the kindest, loveliest, dearest people make modest plans for their funeral that reflect that same humility - the simple 'not wanting to make a fuss' and never assuming that others (except maybe immediate family) will be very sad to lose them - even though a great many people will be.

Whereas the absolutely nasty abusive arseholes tend to be the ones who expect the whole town to come out in sackcloth and gnashing their teeth, and feel that they deserve nothing less than an overblown monumental fanfare to represent their immense (self) importance.