Brother has swindled DM out of over £100k- desperate advice please

[Unicornfairysoap]

Sorry I’m posting in aibu for traffic.

this is long, you may remember such threads as brother Pretended to dying DF to be in the navy to get money, pretend to be in mi6, threatened me with a multi billion £ law suit for saying he doesn’t have a PhD (he literally doesn’t, so it’s a stupid lie)

well DF died a few years ago and it’s been just dm, she lives 2/3 hrs away from my, brother lives closer. She works part time (20hrs a week) and gets my dads old pension and hers, which I’ve totalled as around £3.5k per month (no mortgage just bills). She’s been frequently crying to me she’s not got any money, I thought she was having me on a bit, but I had suspicions brother had claws in. Well she was visiting yesterday and broke down from not being able to pay her bills, she just kept repeating she’s not earning enough now, which she clearly is. The bills were only a few hundred too and she’s not the type to ask for money. I got quite concerned, and I noticed constant phone calls and texts coming in from brother. Now he’s the type that doesn’t contact unless he needs or wants something.

she went to the loo, and I snooped. I know it’s a total break of trust but I was genuinely concerned. I saw a list she’d wrote to him when he was telling her she was dead to him because she couldn’t give him £4k at the drop of a hat. The list went from 2019-2022 (so not even the last 18 months) and it detailed how she’d given him £120k over that time. He’s been going on luxurious holidays in that time. In a legal dispute with his ex. But he’s taking her to the cleaners and im genuinely worried. I looks like pure coercive control and an abusive relationship.

thing is i can’t tell her I looked and saw what I saw. She won’t take kindly to me calling social services or the police to talk with her, it will likely push her further to him.

shes 73 and he’s taken probably £150k at least

You could ask your mum if she remembers Dot Cotton in Eastenders. Your brother is Nasty Nick alright.

Tbh I would have a confrontation with your brother. Tell him you’re onto him and are recording it all to build a case. And that your mother doesn’t know about this. Scare him so he stops. I know this probs not the most sensible but it’s what I would do. Or confront my mum, tell her a text popped up and that what he is doing is illegal and must stop now, no ifs or buts.

Could you persuade her to put her money into another accounts and have you as a secondary account holder so that she can’t transfer money out of that account without you agreeing. Tell her you’ll set up a direct debit each month to her usual account so she can pay her bills, but there won’t be any spare to give to him if he asks. But tell her she’d be able to get money if she had an emergency. And tell her you’ve googled and no government dept asks for money for a security check - he is conning her again.

If his job offer is from a government department then they would pay for the security checks (they would also contact his family, ie mother and siblings so ask him which department you should expect to be getting in touch).

Sorry OP, it you have got to be really upfront and honest with your mum.

You can't help her unless she makes a complaint against your brother. If she does that you can support her, but you cannot magic up a solution without her cooperation. It really is up to her.

I think this is a long term solution because she’s got like 50 years worth of stuff In a house and id in truth be worried he’d want or find a way to get to the cash from the house sale.

it’s hard to believe but this thread hasn’t done him justice with how vile he is

This is elder abuse and financial abuse and she needs help. Mental competency is very specific. She might be competent in most areas but not others and as an older person she is considered especially vulnerable and needs a higher degree of protection and safeguarding from your brother. Does she have a POA? Could she appoint you as POA so that you can help her with her decision making? I think it’s incredibly difficult because in my experience no one wants to die with an unfinished argument with their children. Obviously your brother is a POS but you may have to go very gently… offer to help her sort out her finances, see how much she has coming in, set aside money to pay her bills and see how much she has left over for gifts. This might help her set a limit. Also check on her will. Has he pressurised her to change it? The best thing you could do is become her POA so that you can monitor her accounts and finances. Time to do this is now if you can before she becomes unable to make decisions and can’t appoint you. Good luck. It’s a horrible thing to have to go through.

I would tell her that giving him any more money and he has to declare it, and pay tax on the gifts.

Tell her he will be in to trouble with the police for fraud if she doesn’t stop.

Ask her what your father would think of her doing this? Giving all his pension away to one child.

Also, if someone did go to the police it would probably be his ex wife that reported him. Wouldn’t it.

It really astounds me how long people can go! Your poor mum 😔 I hope you do resolve this and he gets done for this 😡

You need to visit bank branch with your mother to discuss this. Book an appointment.

Failing that call and a note can be put on her file so advisor has to ask more questions when transferring.

I’m not in the UK but Im thinking you must have a gift tax allowance there too??

It’s €3000 gift here per year, anything above that has to be taxed.

Yes - get that POA in place.
One of my friends parent was giving money to an unscrupulous younger relative ( for attention, love , company)
This person would get money , presents , use friends card etc. blank checks)
friends mum would forget they given the person money/gifts/etc. and just keep giving more.
Finally paper bank statements were requested ( all done on line so friend could see but patent wouldn't believe them)
So once the paper records were sent the Penny dropped.
But of course then they forget again.
Currently the thief has latch on to someone else ...,,

@Unicornfairysoap

Your mum is being abused. Your DB is scum of the earth.

You have tried so many times to help her over the years.

Until your DM can admit it to you and ask for your help and you be POA, I am not sure what you can do.

Please protect yourself.

This is not something you pay for as an individual, the employer pays it.

Edit: just seen others have said the same thing - however if he HAS been offered a job like this and they contact you or your mum, a mention of his financial habits will make sure he doesn’t get the clearance!

Your poor mom! I would seek advice from Age UK.

Had something sort of similar happen in my family, not quite the same but financial abuse. In our case, my nan had a stroke and was unable to talk or communicate for the last 5 years of her life, her husband would have her card and his son and DIL would take them shopping weekly (they lived far closer than us), sometimes he would let them get their shopping out of my nan’s money (not good, but they were helping so nan’s husband offered and it only started out as a £20, £30, £40 shop and increased from there). Then they started keeping hold of the card full-time, ‘forgetting’ to give it back and drawing out hundreds of pounds at a time multiple times a week from my nan’s account.

We discovered this all far too late, as the son who had the card contacted his dad (nan’s husband) to ask why the card wasn’t working because he wanted to draw some money out of nan’s bank for something (!). We had cancelled the card as my nan had died a few days prior.

We took all the bank statements, evidence of nan’s lack of capacity to the police and they said it happens really often and as it’s a civil matter they couldn’t do anything. And also that we couldn’t prove my nan, who was unable to move or talk, hadn’t spent the money herself, even when she was dead and at the funeral home. In the end they managed to take about £30k, so I can’t imagine the stress with the amount your mom has lost. She should have died with lots of money as she didn’t go out often for trips unless we took her and they had everything they needed, but we ended up struggling to pay for her funeral as her account was basically empty. I’d contact police anyway in case you get someone more useful than the ones we dealt with, and contact Age UK for advice.

Unfortunately people like this, as you know, are just total scumbags. They were back at it visiting nan’s husband in the care home before he passed away asking him for money, even after they’d been caught doing it on my nan’s account they couldn’t stop themselves trying again.

Sorry for the long reply, just could relate with how horrid it feels when someone you should have trusted does something like this, hope your mom is okay and that you can get it resolved. Hugs x

Your story makes me so sick @ToRecordOnlyWater. do they know that everyone knows about them? Do they have no shame?? I’d call them out publicly and frequently and warn the husband’s care home not to let them near him. Bastards!

BTW I remember all your other threads.

If he keeps going on about money and this job - just tell her that isn't how they vet people. Also, if he was to be financially vetted by the government, it would be a massive red flag that he was receiving thousands of £s from his mum. It would show that he was a liability for potential blackmail.

I really hope karma comes along soon to bite him on the arse.

Please get a POA ASAP. My elderly neighbour was financially abused by her cleaner - she stole thousands. The bank was actually very understanding when she went in the bank with her son to get it sorted out and put safeguards in place for it not to happen again

Agreed. I work in government. I can 100% guarantee that the government department/service pays for the security checks, even enhanced DBS and security clearances. I put them through my budgets for new job candidates/recruits regularly. Under no circumstances would a prospective employee ever have to pay for this themselves.

I'm really sorry for what is happening to your mum and you @Unicornfairysoap. I hope there is a better way ahead in time, and that your brother gets his comeuppance.

I hope you don’t work in the uk banking industry as that’s just not true. Self harm? There’s no legal process, the member of staff flags it in the system.

OP, check your mum’s title deeds to make sure a secured loan hasn’t been taken out against the property.

Your mum wouldn’t even need to have done it, your brother could have forged the paperwork.

Your brother’s behaviour may meet the standards for coercive control

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/9/section/76/enacted

Banks do check, but unfortunately the check seems to consist of phoning the account owner.

(When my husband died, I was his executor. The bank was concerned because I'd signed three large cheques. They phoned me about one and stopped the other two until I phoned them back.)

Even though she’s willingly giving him the money, since he is lying to her to convince her to give it to him, what he’s doing is criminal- fraud by false representation under the Fraud Act 2006 -this is the case whether she believes his lies or not. The police should be interested, since she’s clearly vulnerable and it’s a lot of money, but without her cooperation they may not be. It’s difficult to investigate and prosecute if she isn’t onboard with it.

It’s good you’ve got her to open up to you. Is she open to hearing that he’s lying to her about why he “needs” the money? Has she realised that previous “gifts” have been used for holidays etc. when she’s having trouble paying her bills? Would getting her to go through the list of everything she’s given him, with dates, then go through his facebook feed highlighting and trips, new purchases etc. made just after those dates help?

Could you ask her just to forward you all his requests before she acts on them as a first step?

Long term, the idea of moving her closer to you is probably a good one. Would she be open to it?

I agree with the POA. She needs help.

Also you don't pay for security clearance. My DH & Dsis have enhanced clearance for their jobs. The big part of that is they vet the whole family which is incredibly intrusive. I had to give my whole job and credit history.

Honestly, what he's doing is a crime. He's an abusive narcissist and I would tell the police because he'll most likely become abusive and you need to preempt that.

@SpringKitten has given excellent advice upthread as to how to approach this, OP.

One thing she could do is put the bulk of her money into an account where you have to give notice of withdrawals and can't just access it as and when. That would help prevent her handing over money when he asks and will make it pointless for him to put pressure on her. She can then truthfully tell him that the money is "locked down" and she can't access it to give him any.

But I absolutely agree it is a safeguarding matter and I would raise it with social services. And I would also say that you think it is control and coercion; they can get the police involved if appropriate.

Your poor mum, and what an utter shit your brother is.

Some years ago, I applied for the accelerated entry/promotion route with the civil service.

Passed the exam - had to be in the top whatever - and was then invited down to London for the board, for the next step.

While I was being interviewed, it became obvious that I'd already been vetted - they knew all about my family's history during WW2, for example.

There's no way that they still need to vet your brother.