Do you still think it's all about calories in vs calories out and fat people are not disciplined enough ?

[deebate]

I've been doing a lot of online research over the years around diet/ exercise and what's the answer. How can I keep fit and be healthy.

I've tried various things and I am generally a believer in calories in vs calories out. Which seems to be the favoured method on here.

If anyone complains they're struggling with losing weight, it must be because they're not counting everything etc.

In any case, I've now stumbled across a number of podcasts of different doctors and nutritionists in the field talking about gut microbes and sugar spikes etc and how actually it's really not just about calories at all.

What's the consensus on here about all this ?

Actually, not Kindergarten but actually from the word go. Parents are permanently out and about with their kids and kids play outside a lot of the time. As did we in the 80s in Britain.

You simply can’t gain wait unless you’re eating the surplus calories to be able to do so. Depending on metabolism some people can get away with eating more than others, but the basic principle of CICO is correct.

If an obese person went to a concentration camp they would lose weight as they’re not eating, same as everyone else!

Doesn't matter if you do or don't believe in cico. The science works, eat less and you'll lose weight. 🙄

so much bollocks being spouted on this thread, probably by overweight people who don't want to give up their daily crisps and chocolate.

Your medication was making you feel hungrier, so you ate more. Now you don't feel as hungry so you're eating less. Cico. It really is that simple.

I'm overweight. Have been since a kid. I've counted calories, fasted, done most of it. I'm 35 and am finally on a path to losing weight. I've lost 16lbs since January 1. It's a slow process. But I worked with a holistic health coach (also a PT and nutritionist) and I learnt about food for the first time in my life. Sure calories in Vs out is important. But it's very much about what you eat to keep you energised and healthy (physically and mentally). Vitamins and minerals, fresh veg, 20-30grams of protein with each meal to keep you full, you need healthy fats. I go off track sometimes. I still have the odd takeaway, chocolate. I keep it within my daily calories. And if I've maxed out my calories, and I'm genuinely hungry later in the evening, I eat. Because I've now seen personally and read how damaging restricting can be. Fasting was horrendous for me and I had awful side effects. I'll never do it ever again.
I also worked on myself mentally with my coach and have finally cracked emotionally eating. I've just been through a very tough, low few months and I didn't find myself turning to food for the first time in my life. It's a long process and it'll be slow and it won't be linear but I finally feel like I know what I'm doing.

Yeah it’s cico ultimately. But there are different ways to make that workable. Cutting carbs and sugar made me way less hungry and able to stick to a diet. Lost almost 3st years and years ago and kept it off.

I’m no scientist but I don’t know that if I eat less calories I lose weight. That bit is pretty simple for me.

If I’m right, Slimming World has a focus on putting certain foods together or avoiding putting them together as opposed to counting calories (that’s what my brother tells me).

I find Iow carb the fastest and most satiating way to lose weight. I am never hungry with it but it’s hard work and expensive.

I am half a stone overweight and it’s literally because I eat three chocolate bars a day and don’t count calories or carbs at the moment.

I was overweight. Then I took up cardio - running, cycling, hiking. I cycle a 20km commute as an absolute minimum each day. It changed my body shape, my digestion and it changed how I eat. I crave nutritious food and I discovered that cycling after bread makes me sluggish and slower, so I just stopped. I have more energy for cooking and looking after myself properly.

I still track CICO but I burn enough calories to eat hearty meals and a few treats so I don’t feel hard done by.

Technically it is but it’s really not that simple. Most people can lose weight but most people struggle to keep it off. I posted this in another thread which explains it well.

The people I know who are fat just eat SO MUCH.
My MIL will have a cooked breakfast with several slices of toast and butter on the side, a proper lunch, a big slice of cake in the afternoon and then a proper dinner, with a couple of cans of fizzy drink if she fancies.
My mum doesn't eat like that, but is someone who binges, so if there's a loaf of bread bought for guests she will apparently eat the entire remaining loaf with butter in a day. The worst thing I saw her do in relation to food was put an M&S Chinese fakeaway in the oven to heat for 20 minutes and then had a portion of chips while she waited!
My MIL and mum are practically terrified of hunger pangs - they think they will kill them. Whereas I can sit with hunger pangs for an entire afternoon without concern. I think there is something in that.

For me personally, calories is the best way to control my weight. I've lost 3 stone just counting and restricting calories. I don't have extra calories for exercise though. It's been the only thing that's worked for me successfully, long term.

Until you reach bloody peri and sniffing a cake puts 10lbs on that you will never, ever be able to shift.

Well, I didn’t get to 23 stone by eating salad, put it that way.

I ate absolute shit. All day, everyday. I’d have well meaning people say, “but you don’t eat much?” I’d ask them if they were mad, how did they think I was so fucking fat?

I used to get people asking if I’d had my thyroid checked. yeah, it will be my thyroid, not me eating half the contents of the Greggs counter each day 🤣

Now 11 stone down and I don’t eat even a fraction of what I did.

Now I get, “ooooh, how did you lose all that?” And I reply honestly that I used to be a massive, greedy bastard and now I’m not.

That is down to metabolism slowing and intake not being adjusted (downwards) to compensate. It is still calories in, calories out.

CICO isn't a bad rule of thumb to follow if you're trying to lose weight, but generally food packets aren't that great at accurately showing the actual calories that your body is absorbing from a food.

It varies quite a lot and there are a lot of inaccuracies. So it's only ever a guide.

I have never thought 'fat people are not disciplined enough', there are always underlying psychological factors which are more complicated than this.

I agree with this.
UPFs encourage us to overeat but in the end it comes down to CICO.

I read that ultra processed people book. There's a bit in there about pringles and how they contain a flavour that is like roast meat and so your body would reasonably be expecting some protein but it gets a glob of potato starch. It seems to make sense that you would feel compelled to eat more and more, trying to get the protein your body was expecting.

I do largely think it's about calories in and out for most people. But I don't think it's laziness or thickness that makes people obese.

The success of drugs like mounjaro shows that some people do genuinely just have bodies that respond to food and hunger in different ways, mentally and physically. Previous thought has been to call it "willpower" and imply obese people are just weak and don't have it. But the fact that a drug can turn those thoughts on and off at will suggests otherwise.

I think that's partly why people who have never seriously struggled with their weight dislike these drugs. The evidence that they prove that maybe they're not superior to fat people after all, just biologically lucky.

CICO isn't a bad rule of thumb to follow if you're trying to lose weight, but generally food packets aren't that great at accurately showing the actual calories that your body is absorbing from a food.

That makes a huge difference. There are around 40,000 calories in a gallon of petrol, but you won’t get fat drinking it.

CICO is flawed because it doesn't account for how your body actually processes food.

Say for example you have a handful of nuts and seeds. You look at the packet and it says 200 calories in that handful.

You get another handful but with these ones, you put them in a blender and grind them up. Still 200 calories, according to the packet - the same weight.

If you eat the ones that are unblended, your body is not going to absorb the entire 200 calories. Some of the seeds might well just pass through your system completely without being digested.

If you eat the ground ones, your body will absorb everything, because of the large surface area.

So even though you had the same amount, you get more calories from one than the other.

These are the kind of nuances that CICO doesn't account for. You can't actually know exactly how many calories you are absorbing.

It is complex.

When you live with others, say in a student house (where also women often end up regulating their periods), you notice that no one person is the same, how much they consume.
Plus eg growing teenage boys need a lot! Hollow legs, which is a wierd concept.

Op i reckon youve been listening to steven bartletts podcast which i did for a while until i realised that each guest contradicts the one before and he invests in some of the companies that the guests own and its all a big sales scam*

*edit to add zoe is one of the scams he's involved in

I believe it is about UPF. Supermarkets are killing people.
Genetics.
Portion control.
Exercise.

Interesting thread.
My experience is that it is CICO. I was thin till I went to uni and started eating more (endless toast and Jaffa cakes sitting around in friends rooms in hall).
Before that I was very active and just saw food as fuel, only ate when actually hungry.
Thin again till after DC when awful marriage made me depressed and turn to food for comfort. I exercised a lot -kayaking every day, active job -but overate and drank too much.
In the dying days of my marriage when it was over in all but name, met a gorgeous hunk and the weight just dropped off because I lost all interest in food and was around him who was like the ‘undepressed me’ who only ate if hungry -not consciously aware of ‘dieting’
Now we have split I am spending my time with lovely friends, but they are all overweight and we drink too much so my weight has crept up…
It is is defining CI for me.

Gut biome I think plays a big part in the desire for food. There was an in testing experiment where there was a faecal transplant? of gut bacteria between thin and fat people and the recipient then gained or lost weight depending on what the donor’s weight had been.