To wish I didn't have my daughter

[gingerbreadbunny]

I have 4 children, 3 are lovely easy children and 1 who whinges and whines all day about anything and everything.
She's really hard work, the other 3 go straight to bed but not her she's up fussing back and forth for hours, it's exhausting.
She doesn't ever want to go anywhere and will make everything about her by just being difficult and awkward, she won't do as she's told,
if she doesn't get her own way she screams and tantrums and ruins everyone else's day.
She constantly and deliberately upsets her brothers and sister who have had enough, she'll only play with them if she gets her own way and if they don't want to play her way she'll ruin it for them or won't play.
She's 6 and I love her but I just know life would be so much happier for us all if we hadn't had her.
I feel like she sucks all the energy out of me every single day.
She always wants everything to be about her and will deliberately talk over any siblings who try and talk to me.
If I hold another's hand she'll pull them off me so she can hold my hand instead.
I just don't have any energy left, she's completely depleting me and dh.
She is full of anger and hatred and is wearing us down.
She can be lovely when it suits her but it's usually short lived, just until something doesn't go her way.

That's not what you said though is it?

reality that the ND population is and always has been significantly larger than anyone ever realised

I think Autistic Girls network estimate 1 in 3. The numbers in NI are much higher than UK

Ok I hate to suggest autism at the first sign of any unusual behaviour but tens of thousands of girls have been failed because of a lack of understanding of how autism and adhd present in girls and this pervasive misconception that if they truly 'can't help it' then they would behave like this both in school and at home.

I dont know if your daughter is ND or not but don't let the fact that she's not like this in school out you off exploring it. Girls are incredibly good at masking but it's exhausting for them.

@Pantaloons99 i second your statistics.
My parents had nine grandchildren. Three are neuro diverse.
I also seem to work for ND founders in my line of work. They are very driven.

Yeah I think @Katbum lost us all when she described diagnosable neurological conditions as an "ideology".

Put judgemental self into my shoes
@Katbum, when you're woken every night for nearly six years and your child cries and cries at night because school is "too loud" and see how offensive you are being.

Oh cool, hitting disabled children, that's your parenting strategy?

Wow that is really amazing. I am not ND so I'm conscious it isn't my place to patronise. I apologise again for claiming to know what it's like. I'm just a parent. But, part of me feels happy about this fact you've shared, simply so my son knows he isn't this odd bod all alone out there in the world ( as many are left feeling in an NT world). So many people are hiding in the shadows and I feel good knowing it's now coming out that a huge proportion of ND people are and have always been out there.

I was very firm with my ADHD son because that's what the consultant told me to be. He was made to go to school, made to do homework not allowed out until it was done. It would have been so much easier to let him off because of his ADHD. As an adult he is very thankful I made him do it. He has a good job, his own home, and a lovely gf. 2 other boys in his year who also had ADHD but we're never made to behave got no qualifications whatsoever, still have never worked and honestly a bleak future on benefits. Sometimes tough love is needed.

@Katbum I understand that some people think we've gone all soft touch in this day and age. It isn't like that. Most of us really have learnt to have good boundaries without whacking kids. It is simply about letting alot of the pointless stuff go. So many rules are pointless and stupid when you really break it down.

I smacked my son when he was younger on the butt very firmly. The only reason was because I lost it. I was brought up this way. It absolutely isn't the right thing to do. It only damages relationships.

I was told by the consultant at the time my DS with ADHD should be treated the same as other DC and he would need to live in a world that wouldn't fall over itself to accommodate him. I was told to start with the premise that good behaviour would equal a reward. So if he did his homework he got to play with his toys, if he didn't they were removed until he did homework. Then he got them back. My son's an adult now has a good job, his own house and a lovely gf and has told me several times he's really thankful I made him conform. There were other kids in his year with the same diagnosis who were not made to conform. They are now adults who have no qualifications at all, no job since leaving school, a bleak future ahead of them. Allowing kids to refuse to go to school, or do homework won't help them in the long run. Also this DC has not been diagnosed with anything. As usual a child misbehaves and MN jump to the conclusion the DC can't be NT. Leave the diagnosis to the consultants.

I don't know, DS was very much like that. And I gave up on time out or similar because the repeatedly putting him back was just giving him more attention for bad behaviour. It just ended up being counter productive.

For us the only consequence that actually had an impact was putting away things to do with, what we later realised were, his special interests.

We tried to make ours go to school.

But she seriously self harmed. Again you were lucky that your child coped with your strategies.

It doesn’t work for everyone. And it’s not the reason your aon went on to have a successful life.

How would you have handled a child who was too exhausted to read a paragraph. A child who got a 9 in English. Who’s favourite pastime was reading?

And when pushed to go ( on advice) self harmed? Would tough love have changed that?

For us,school not seeing/experiencing it was part of the diagnostics - so point out to your SENCO if needed that a coke bottle effect and diff presentations at home and school are a marker of additional needs - ppl roll eyes at mumsnetters suggesting ASD but was only googling ‘different at home and school’ and reading a mumsnet thread that helped me realise my then 5YO DD displayed signs of HF ASD. The shock was enormous - though looking back I realised nursery had dismissed my concerns too, they used to peer out windows in shock to see the perfectly behaved child they knew having enormous meltdowns as soon as she saw me at pick up, sometimes couldn’t even get her out of car park.
Don’t think nobody else will spot it tho - we’re into final stage of ASD assessment with camhs (1 year wait so far) - they said ASD must present in two settings, so for us it’s home plus the speech and language therapist’s assessment (organised by school) noted DD didn’t make typical eye contact (I never spotted she didn’t til we got into this - girls so great at copying/masking) and that was enough to count as a second setting and move us forward to in-person assessment, which I’m 100% sure now will end in an ASD diagnosis. Sending you love and good luck it is bloody hard.

I think it depends on the child - my son definitely sees it as a lens through which to understand himself and to help him anticipate when things my go pearshaped and put strategies in place - ie, he knows school trips can be stressful and that he is at risk of migraines (all those new stimuli and lack of routine); however he embraces those opportunities because each time he manages himself, his self-esteem grows and his confidence with it. He finds the diagnosis empowering - but he has also watched his older sister fight it, make herself ill, and decided that is not for him!

We frame it as the same as knowing you have a dodgy knee. It doesn’t mean you can’t run a marathon or climb Everest, it just means that you need a knee brace, extra training, to learn to pace yourself, understanding when to read the signs to stop etc. My DS has applied to boarding school/6th form (35mins away!) so that he can continue to learn to socialise, stand on his own two feet, look after his own washing and study schedule etc ahead of uni. He wants to study medicine - but even with this dream, he thinks he will do a degree in biomed sciences first so that he goes to med school a little older. He is giving himself time to mature and to learn to manage his ASD before he hits a ward round. A diagnosis is NOT the end of the world. It’s information. And it can be empowering.

Sorry, long answer, but hope it helps.

If you had asked my school when I was a child (not that ND was a thing then), they would have said absolutely not. I was academically very capable. Compliant. Had friends. Was often teacher’s pet. Rarely got into trouble. I did well at school. I didn’t love it and found it a bit boring. I was lazy. But nothing at all which said ND. Even if I was in school nowadays no one would likely say ND.

At home I was angry, rude and defiant. My mother was beside herself trying to deal with my behaviour. I was disciplined continually by my father. My parents were on the verge of having me put into care apparently.

I now have a diagnosis of ADD. Both my DC are ADHD. I can see it a mile off. Apart from struggling a little academically, my DD is so like me. She feels all her emotions 300%. When she is happy you can feel the joy pouring out of her. When she is sad her heart absolutely breaks. When she is angry she says the most horrible things and has lashed out at me on occasions. She is rude and defiant but also the kindest and most loving child I’ve ever known. I parent her very differently to how I used to now that I understand her better. All the discipline my father handed out only made me fearful and angry. It didn’t improve my behaviour at home at all. I try not to shout at her (she will always shout louder). I don’t react when she says hateful things other than to say that I love her and I know she doesn’t mean that. Or I just smile and say OK fine, we won’t talk about this now. 99% of the time she now seeks me out in under a minute and says sorry and she didn’t mean it. I don’t enter into a battle of wills with her. I am trying to teach her the value of accepting disappointments. I don’t try and explain things all the time (as she will just argue with me), instead I say “I know that’s really disappointing for you”. I don’t try and reason as to why. Just acknowledge that yes that’s not what you want and I understand how you feel. try to spend lots of 1:1 time with her. I’ve really noticed her behaviour improve since I changed my parenting. I think she will always struggle with managing her emotions. She never wants to do as she’s told. Instead of asking her to do something I now phrase it “how much time do you need before tidying your room?” so she feels in control and isn’t having a request sprung on her. If your DD is ND then a diagnosis could help ( neither of my DC are interested in pursuing a diagnosis) but I found that changing my parenting was the most effective thing.

Or I just smile and say OK fine, we won’t talk about this now. 99% of the time she now seeks me out in under a minute and says sorry and she didn’t mean it. I don’t enter into a battle of wills with her.

Oh this so much🥹mine still seeks me out and apologises at 17. It makes me love her even more.

I don’t shout either (although l want to) and never enter a battle of wills.

I second that incredibly hard to parent and really, unless you experience it, few people understand - you love the child, but do not like their behaviour and it can be so relentless that their behaviour can feel synonymous with them.

Hang in there, with an adjusted approach this will almost certainly get better - and the difference it can make can be surprisingly quick and is fascinating. At least that is my experience. Read, read, apply and amend as you find what really works for your DD.

Other things I found really helpful - managing my own anxiety. You and your DH do need to protect that hour a day or whatever to get you run/swim/walk/whatever it may be, in. Yoga an utter life saver and - as the breathing exercises they offer ND kids are difficult to be interested in - I think would be really beneficial to kids as well if they could he interested. Maybe try the odd 10 min YouTube Yoga routine together. Whatever they love which will help reduce their anxiety, to apply their focus onto something in which to lose/sooth themselves.

You have a remarkable individual on your hands. Give them the tools to manage their emotions without quashing their spirit and they will ace life.

But we dont know that she is ND ,
she may crave attention in a family of 4 children, she may realise her mum doesn't like her much, all the replies are important in trying to help a wee 6 year old girl .
She may be ND but trying strategies whilst waiting for assessment would be the best way in this sad situation .

‘Just smack their bum’ what crap, lazy parenting.

I think all the parents of ND kids on here are absolutely sure she’s ND.

Some children need to have consequences that they will respond to. You can either go on antidepressants while you sacrifice your own wellbeing to gentle parent a wayward child or you can smack them when they play up and get on with life. Mumsnet is simply not representative of most parenting scenarios. You want to let one 6 year old run riot and spoil everyone else’s finite life and the other kid’s childhood? You want to pay ££££ to sit in untold diagnostic scenarios until someone tells you what’s wrong with the little prize and how you can pander them further? Up to you. Obviously smacking is a last resort, but it works.

Were you smacked as a kid?

All the research evidence in fact suggests that hitting children, which @Katbum advocates, does not work. Not even for neurotypical children.

🤨. Um…… yeah Ok.

Would really really work for mine…🤔

I don’t know anyone who smacks their children btw….