Baby Reindeer creator is provoking his stalker

[jengachampion]

SPOILERS AHEAD
I’ll preface this by saying I had a male stalker for 7 years. I moved, changed jobs, and deleted all social media in that time. I’m also a survivor of SA, as well as assault after being spiked, similar to RG in the show.

It completely baffles me that he would completely replicate his stalker down to physical likeness, occupation, accent, exact correspondences and references like hanging curtains.

He is clearly not too worried about people finding the real person, as well as her potentially contacting him again.

If it were me telling my story, I would change all identifying details of both of us, because I would NEVER want to go through it again. RG telling his story this way is hugely weird to me and really speaks to the theme of mutual obsession he hints at in the show.

No I'm not, although I won't engage any more as it doesn't seem to be a safe space for all involved to have this chat.

'It happens to women a lot more, but the offshoot of that is that the few men it happens to have a harder time being believed because it's more rare'

Do you think wanking Gadd fantasising over his 'stalker', following her home and spying on her will have helped male victims being believed in the future? He made it all a bit of a laugh didn't he? Well until his snotty nosed comedy show pity party of course.

I think trauma is unique to the individual. He also seemed to hate himself for it.

No, you didn't. You paid lip service in terms of wishing me well 'sincerely' and in the next breath it was 'but what about the men...'.

It's not about a safe space. It's about an open mind. And if it makes you feel better, it's not you that's upset me, it's my experience and the fact nothing changes. I've evidently dealt with a lot worse than you

You didn't answer when another poster asked your sex, are you a man or a woman?

Thought you were stepping away.

Trauma is unique yes. My question was in response to you suggesting men are less likely to be believed. Do you think Gadd has helped this by his sexual fantasies about alleged 'stalker'?

Well I meant from the individual who was triggered, but someone asked me a direct question.

It's a fair question.

I think trauma is different for different victims. I think he shows that he made mistakes too and that his previous trauma played a role.

Overall I think his shoe helps male abuse victims as it shows some of the specific issues male victims can have, like his friends who thought it was funny.

I wasn't 'triggered' . I just needed a reminder from other normal posters that I'm banging my head against a brick wall with you and the upset has shifted more to ffs. The more you 'but what about the men' posts you post, the more you shine a light on my point all the more

Thank you to the posters who stopped my upset in it's tracks 💐

@jengachampion
He’s reposted someone comparing her to heather trotter with laughing emojis. This whole thing is a mess.

Is that actually true? Have you seen it or just seen a screen shot?

'Overall I think his shoe helps male abuse victims as it shows some of the specific issues male victims can have, like his friends who thought it was funny.'

I think the opposite, that it will not help male victims as he found it sexually arousing at one point. You won't find women masturbating over threatening and abusive emails.

Yout won't find women following their stalkers either.

He clearly has poor social skills and is a product of his many neuroses. That been said he should have thought carefully about unleashing the fury of a volatile woman and also the damage he has done to any potential male victims. I bet any investigating PC will be wondering if the alleged victim has been wanking over his alleged tormentor.

I guess we don't know how it will impact on others going forward. I hope it helps victims regardless of how they identify get help.

I did wonder at times if he may be on the spectrum.

Something I do think it covered well was how abusers can also hurt others close to victim. Like his family, ex, and partner. A super important point.

How patronising to suggest that @Lalor was triggered.
And so very wide of the mark, too.

The other thing worth watching is if more people come forward with reporting stalking, which sometimes occurs when shows like this come out.

Thank you, as long as I'm understood by those with the capacity to do so, I'll live!

If she does successfully sue then that could be revealing: https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/04/28/the-real-life-martha-from-baby-reindeer-says-shes-planning-to-sue-netflix/

@Janiie

I think the opposite, that it will not help male victims as he found it sexually arousing at one point. You won't find women masturbating over threatening and abusive emails.
Yout won't find women following their stalkers either.

We don't know what he actually did in real life. You were watching a fictionalized drama based on something real. I am not sure about the time line either. It's meant to have happened over a long period of time. He says on the show so it might not be true that he flirted with her and encouraged her. I've heard of female rape victims who have continued to love and have sex with their abusers. It doesn't make sense but it's definitely a thing.

You see plenty of threads on Mumsnet where it's obvious to everyone but the OP that they are in an abusive relationship.
He was young, did drugs, drank and admits he was confused and immature.

In fairness, he reposted on his insta stories (which I think disappear) a post from a bloke who appears to excel in comparing photos of people with remote similarities with the real thing: in other words, he might have been laughing at himself being compared with small fella next to the Heather actress and showing he could take a joke, rather than laughing at the Martha/Heather comparison.
I don't watch EE so I don't know the frame/still used or the context although wiki tells me she was impregnated by a much younger man...
I doubt he'd be laughing at Cheryl Fergison/Jessica Gunning being plus-size actresses per se. That would be criticising his co-star.
Or comparing Heather and the real-life woman.
I hope I'm wrong.

Richard Gadd

There's a 10 minute Making Of on his website.
There's also an interview on his Press on his website in which he says he did flirt with her and addresses some of what we've discussed on here. I've quoted some of it below. Some of his fears have been realised and I do hope he has some help around him and not just his legal team. He's not wrong about how messy and complicated it all is.

When I decided to debut Baby Reindeer at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in 2019, it had been two years since Martha was out my life and I was facing an entirely new pressure. The court of public opinion.
It felt like a risky thing – to do a “warts and all” version of the story where I held my hands up to the mistakes I had made with Martha. The foolish flirting. The cowardly excuses as to why we could not be together. Not to mention the themes of internalised prejudice and sexual shame that underpinned it all. The graphic details of the drugging and grooming and sexual violence I had experienced only a few years before.
I imagined picket lines outside the venue forcing me to shut down. Telling me that what I was doing was wrong. That she didn’t have a voice. That I was the real perpetrator of harm and she the victim. That storylines of internalised shame are not helpful, anymore, and that my descriptions of sexual violence so extreme that… surely I was complicit in it somehow? These were all legitimate fears and not without merit. But equally I could not shy away from the truth of what had happened to me. This was a messy, complicated situation. But one that needed to be told, regardless.
The show sold out that month and by the end I was performing two shows a day just to cope with demand. People came up to me at the end and would tell me things like “I didn’t know whether to punch you or hug you” and “I felt sorry for you, then I hated her, then I hated you and I felt sorry for her” and to me that was the biggest compliment the show could get. All I ever wanted to do was capture something complicated about the human condition. That we all make mistakes. That no person is ever good or bad. That we are all lost souls looking for love in our own weird way.

Well there is justification because he’s male and male privilege means that women can be dismissed because nothing that happens to them is as important as what happens to men. Which is precisely what the police do of course. Dismiss, disbelieve, ignore.

I just wanted to make clear in case it sounds like I'm down on men... I love men. But the ones I keep in my life love women too

It’s bizarre that this thread is here on Mumsnet, with people spouting the kind of victim blaming shit misogynist men said about Epstein’s victims and Weinstein’s victims and Marilyn Manson’s victims.

Why didn’t she report it?
Why not block him?
Why are they speaking out now, they just want money/attention
Why go back after it happened the first time?

Throw in sympathy for the abuser and calling the victim a liar and this could be the female version of an incel site.

Glad someone else can see it, but I don't think this thread is representative of women or even mumsnet. I think sadly some people's previous trauma has affected how they see the situation when the victim is male. But most think Gadd has done wonderfully well and that's what matters.

Oh please. The female version of an incel site .

I didn't see Weinstein's victims making a show where they masturbated over him, did you? Or followed him, or spied on him, or kept masses of voice recordings and listened to them whilst having a vodka in the pub while the restraining order was in place.

BR is a complete contrary mess and I hope the bloke is getting the support he clearly needs.