Baby Reindeer creator is provoking his stalker

[jengachampion]

SPOILERS AHEAD
I’ll preface this by saying I had a male stalker for 7 years. I moved, changed jobs, and deleted all social media in that time. I’m also a survivor of SA, as well as assault after being spiked, similar to RG in the show.

It completely baffles me that he would completely replicate his stalker down to physical likeness, occupation, accent, exact correspondences and references like hanging curtains.

He is clearly not too worried about people finding the real person, as well as her potentially contacting him again.

If it were me telling my story, I would change all identifying details of both of us, because I would NEVER want to go through it again. RG telling his story this way is hugely weird to me and really speaks to the theme of mutual obsession he hints at in the show.

Have you seen that it's not all true though, he's made out she's done things that she may not ever have done? Which isn't 'exposing her' it's endangering her and lying about her to the literally the world.... If he'd just told the truth, then as a pp phrased, it's still not the court of Netflix

In my case, his nutcase wife (NHS worker in a position of authority) assaulted me for being obsessed with her husband....she believed all his lies, God knows what he said. He got to go back and carry on with his life with a harassment warning which means nothing

It's his lived experience, he's got every right to tell his story. The people that think he is lying or should not be allowed to speak his truth are part of the problem.

My suspicion is that some the more cynical comments on threads such as this would not happen it were a male stalker and female victim.

There is an element of female privilege here.

Read every single post and you'll see how wrong you are

P.s. He's literally said himself it's an 'emotionally true fictionalised account'. He could have told his story... His 'emotional truth' and changed things sufficiently so that no one could be identified rather than his disingenuous lies about changing things...

There was a case a few years ago where a school girls diary was found with her fantasies about a teacher. He got sacked and investigated by the police. You could say her diary was her 'emotional truth' and all but name him in a Netflix show.... and it would still be bollocks. And wrong.

Tell the truth. Or write fiction. Or make it clear what's what. Anything else is wrong

Some people on this thread are saying they think it's a hoax, others saying he's just as "tapped" as her. I don't think this would happen if it was roles reversed.

It's a Netflix show, so naturally there will be some dramatization. But Gadd shared that his stalker had sent him "41,071 emails, 350 hours of voicemail, 744 tweets, 46 Facebook messages, 106 pages of letters, sleeping pills, a woolly hat, a pair of brand new boxer shorts and a cuddly reindeer toy."

So it sounds like her portrayal is quite accurate. The show did encourage people not to go looking for her, but she was so nutty on Facebook that it was hard not to realize it was her.

If it were a male stalker and female victim it would be even more dangerous.

All stalkers are dangerous, and every situation is unique. Generalizations like that don't help or add anything useful.

The point is, we have no idea what's true. All we have is an admittedly unreliable narrator who says some bits are true... Some aren't... I'm not going to be clear on either aspect and I crave fame/adoration... But Don't go looking for this absolute breadcrumb trail will you, viewers.

People sought her out on FB. She didn't ask for that. It was over 10 years ago and he was the one who has brought all this back into the public eye. I have every sympathy with his trauma and no one should have to go through the assaults or abuse. But having awful things happen to you doesn't give you an automatic green light to do whatever you like with no consequences. For me personally, it's made me more careful, more cautious and more scared of it happening again so try and protect myself as best I can

@ExpertInNothing

It's his lived experience, he's got every right to tell his story. The people that think he is lying or should not be allowed to speak his truth are part of the problem.

We don't really have that right though (legally) unless someone has been convicted.

My suspicion is that some the more cynical comments on threads such as this would not happen it were a male stalker and female victim.

There is an element of female privilege here.

A story told the same way? I think the comments would be the same or even worse!!!

There is already a 'women are crazy' narrative perpetuated in society.
Women are also often accused of encouraging drama and thriving off it.
In Gadds own telling of this story he is enjoying parts of it and getting something from it.
A woman would be judged extremely harshly for that.

Some people on this thread are saying they think it's a hoax, others saying he's just as "tapped" as her. I don't think this would happen if it was roles reversed.

Again, not true. There's no female privilege here because people love to perpetuate the women are crazy narrative. A female victim would without a doubt be called just as 'tapped' as him.

The show did encourage people not to go looking for her, but she was so nutty on Facebook that it was hard not to realize it was her.

No it didn't.
Gadd did in interviews, but the show didn't.
And even if it did everyone knew that people would go looking for her.
And she didn't go nutty on facebook until people had found her already.

A bit offtopic perhaps, but I'm not sure I agree that portrayals of dangerous female stalkers/harassers are rare in pop culture. All the contrary, pretty much all the stalking/harassment films I remember growing up were about female perpetrators. "Fatal Attraction" (and its many, many imitators, stuff like "Swimfan"), "Misery", "Single White Female", "Disclosure", "The hand that rocks the cradle", "Poison Ivy", etc. "Bunny boiler" is still an evocative insult for a very full-on/stalker-y woman! Off the top of my head I can't think of a single film about a male stalker that had anything near the same cultural impact or staying power as some of these.

We do have slander laws in this country so she could sue if something wrong has occurred here. But generally abuse victims should be allowed to tell their stories.

Several posts on this thread have suggested it's a hoax and her Facebook profile was already a mess before the series came out.

I don't think people generally do like to put forward that narrative about women now.

It sounds like this story started off on a much smaller scale in his fringe show(s?) and he probably never expected to get the opportunity to make it bigger. When he did get that opportunity (and I don't know how that came about), the full story was already out there, so if he'd changed more for the Netflix version, people would still have been able to go back and find the details from his past material. He'd have known it was largely pointless. To be honest, it would have been hard to resist - if you're an artist with some minor successes and you're given the opportunity to tell your story on a world stage for big money, of course you're going to take it. Netflix probably realised the real Martha was so mentally unwell that she could never mount a serious legal challenge of any sort. If anything happens to her she would just be one in a long line of victims from "reality" TV. Many are harmed or die every year but the shows all still go on. But yes, we should be talking about that.

And don't forget that the public "confession" he made on stage was uploaded to Youtube shortly after he'd made it and is presumably still out there. I haven't looked so correct me if I'm wrong though.

You need to do some research: https://ceps.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/2021/11/17/gender-stereotypes-see-female-criminals-fare-better-in-court/

What people should be allowed to do and what people have the right to do is different.

Yes it's been suggested it was a hoax, and there's nothing to suggest that they wouldn't have if it had been a male stalker. People would have still looked him up and found him and if he responded the same way the same people would have said hoax.

They do put that narrative forward all the time. Most of the shitty men out there say they have crazy exes, if someone tells a woman her husband/boyfriend is cheating then she's often deemed a 'crazy stalker'. And women lap it up too and then parrot back the crazy ex stalker stories all the time.
It's the go-to put down about women and is accepted by so many without ever being challenged.

You think generalisations about “female privilege” help? Wtf is that?

It is simply a fact that more women are harmed and killed by men including stalkers than vice versa.

It is also a fact that it would be more dangerous for a woman to provoke a stalker given that it would be easer for him to overpower her.

Emily Maitliss was harassed by a stalker for 30 years - he was jailed for 8 years. Did you ever see her call him out in public? Holly Willoughby left her job over the plot to kidnap and murder her.

I think it’s a fair generalisation to say that most female stalker victims would think twice about calling out a stalker in this way lest they were killed.

That research was based on sentencing from 2000-2003

That seems really subjective tbh, my cynicism is based on reports such as this: https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/newsroom/why-are-men-often-overlooked-as-victims-of-domestic-abuse

And???????????

(Only the French part it seems)

There is something on youtube but I believe it was just talking about how hard it was to make it in comedy.
There was no big breakdown where he described his trauma.

Exactly.
Female privilege in the context of this subject is extremely bloody disturbing.

It's not a fact that it would be more dangerous for a woman to provoke a stalker given that it would be easer for him to overpower her. It's a generalization, as every situation is unique in some way.

All stalkers are dangerous and all victims should be listened too regardless of sex.

Oddly another female stalker was sentenced just a few days ago: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd130ppj1j9o.amp

Other male victims have talked about not being taken seriously: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42582820.amp

I think some the animosity directed towards Richards Gadd here would not occur against a women, in my opinion.

Subjective my arsehole.

I'm not talking about men who have experienced domestic abuse am I?

Most of those shitty men who say they have 'crazy exes' don't even claim to have been abused. They just say the ex is crazy, and that's why they can't see the kids etc. They don't try to see the kids or try to get custody even though the ex is so 'crazy'. They don't even need to show evidence or even any stories about what she did that was so 'crazy'. They just say the magic word "crazy" and then people just nod and go along with the narrative.

I’m sorry but it is a fact.

That’s not to say that some women are not abusive and some women do not murder men.

But 2 women a week are murdered by men - around 100 every year. Most men, are killed by other men.

And if you truly believe that the stalker in this case could be dangerous to the writer, then it was dangerous to provoke her in this way. I have already flagged the irresponsibility of the show, that she is clearly mentally unwell and may harm herself or someone else.