Right wing thugs 'protecting the flag' on St George's Day

[newnamethanks]

Cruella's boot boys out on the street again protecting our British freedoms in their usual brutish fashion with violent disorder. She must feel very proud.

Why on earth do you think all white working class people are Neo Nazis? Do you even know any working class people? Most of us are leftists…

The number of white working class people who would vote for Laurence Fox vs Sadiq Khan is minuscule, I’m afraid. They are a tiny, unpleasant minority.

I believe that most are economic migrants coming here for a better life, rather than fleeing persecution. A lot don’t even carry papers on them, nor any evidence of where they’re from, to avoid deportation. And issues with the NHS pre-dates Brexit. Its been in decline for years, and is no longer able to cope with an increased aging population. It’s on its knees and can’t accommodate further people coming here.

Do you have those stats @MarioIa?

What are the reasons then?

I certainly can't think of any non Islamic cases where brothers etc have killed sisters to 'maintain the family honour'.

I feel that for a lot of self proclaimed 'feminists' it's just another justification to moan about men. They say "oh, it's all male violence" and then suddenly John the white, middle class, accountant from Kensington is responsible for FGM/honour/killings/etc simply because he's a man and it's male violence innit.

But if instead you look at it in terms of 'criminal' and 'non criminal' then a lot of the men you could previously lump in there and criticise are actually innocent. That's why these 'feminists' will often actively resist detailed analysis/profiling. Basically, all male violence is committed by men but not all men commit male violence. You may as well tell a catholic woman that's she's responsible for priests abusing young boys as it's 'catholic abuse'.

Those that like to reduce it to 'male violence' in order to berate John the white accountant will actively try and shut down discussion around the true demographic that perpetrate the crimes, because identifying the real culprits means they can no longer berate the innocent men around them.

These kind of behaviours are actually more harmful to the female victims than not doing anything at all, because they actively remove the focus from the perpetrators and onto men that aren't involved.

I was slightly out but not far off.

According to the EU Agency for Asylum, male applicants last year accounted for 71% of asylum claims.

Why it's often men who make the migration journey to Europe

https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/06/why-its-often-men-who-make-the-migration-journey-to-europe#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20EU%20Agency,for%2071%25%20of%20asylum%20claims.

If you want stats on sexual violence committed by asylum seekers just google any of Ayaan Hirsi-Ali's articles or even better read her book Prey. And also the wiki page on the NYE 2016 sexual assaults and the many links to similar assaults. For example, the music festival in Sweden where 38 girls, mostly under 15yo, were sexually assaulted and yet the police described the event as 'calm' and didn't publicise the assaults - a police spokesperson later said that "police employees are afraid of talking about these things in the context of the immigration debate today".

There was a massive thread with loads of data from the book but it unfortunately seems to have been deleted and I'm not going to spend hours copying and pasting from articles. One stat I remember is that asylum seekers comprise 1-2% of the population in France yet commit almost 20% of all 'serious sex crimes including rape' - a specific category of sex crimes.

People are usually quick to call these statistics 'racist' but they're facts. It's like calling somebody a transphobe for saying humans can't change sex. We shouldn't put political correctness above women's safety IMO.

Do you have the stats on the ethnicity of sex abusers in the UK @MarioIa?

If you actually like read the articles it's mentioned in much detail. The perpetrators of the 1200 sexual assaults on NYE were variously described by their victims as 'foreign', 'dark skinned', 'North African', etc. All the links are on the wiki page. Literally google 'NYE 2016 sexual assaults'.

When the police are stating their fear of releasing details 'in the context of the immigration debate today' they're generally not talking about white immigrants from Europe.

The manner of the sexual assaults (women being surrounded and simultaneously abused) actually has a name in middle eastern countries. It translates as either 'the rape game' or 'hell circles'. Hirsi Ali talks about this. It's exactly what happened to the reporter Lara Logan who had publicly raped for around half an hour when reporting on the Arab Spring in Egypt.

And I'm talking about Europe, not just the UK. It's not just an isolated issue. Ali provides data that shows that for every single European country where the stats are available sexual assault has risen in accordance with the number of asylum seekers taken - the countries taking the most have seen the biggest increase.

This is what you said @MarioIa. All I'm asking is for the statistics. What % of sexual violence is committed by British men? What % by foreign born men?

Do you have those stats?

The divide and conquer tactics of the Tory Party and GB News want you to think this. You’re seeing immigration as illegal immigration i.e “the boat people” who actually don’t have access to any of the above.

Legal migrants contribute a lot to our economy and the tightening of legitimate routes has led to huge employment gaps that can’t be filled. Particularly in places like the NHS. A few other points:

1. We don’t have enough social housing because our governments have neglected this since the 1980s (Labour and Tory).

2. Our NHS is at breaking point because of under funding, over management and ageing populations.

3. Our schools are bursting because of under funding again. Not enough money put into new buildings, new schools, tackling the staffing shortage.

It is a tale as old as time to scapegoat the powerless for issues created by the powerful. Distract the plebs with their own narrative.

This is simply not true!

I'm not getting into this game of running around answering a million questions. It's a common mumsnet diversionary tactic and rarely used in good faith - usually to try and pick holes in an argument/derail.

I've got a question for you, though....

We have incontrovertible evidence of no less than 1200 sexual assaults being carried out in one single night by men described as "foreign"/"North African"/"dark skinned". An assault that echoes the practice known in Arabic as 'taharrush gamea'.

Find me an example where even 600 sexual assaults were carried out in one night by men described as "European"/"white"/etc.

And maybe also have a think about what you're trying to downplay. The single biggest instance of sexual assault in our lifetimes, possibly since antiquity. An event which was already brushed under the carpet by the police along with several smaller mass assaults.

Are you really trying to brush this under the carpet as a woman? Not just ignore it but actively shut down discussion and be a rape apologist? How would you feel if it happened again and another 1200 women were traumatised?

Actually, I am wrong to say that they outright commit more sexual assaults. What I should've said is that they commit more proportionately.

Here's a quote from Hirsi-Ali's book 'Prey'. There are a lot more statistics in the actual book but sadly I lent it to somebody ages ago and didn't ever get it back.

The rates of “either rape or sexual assault went up between 2014 and 2017 in every European country for which data are available” and “in some countries — notably Denmark and England — they went up a lot, roughly doubling in the case of Denmark.” In that country, Hirsi Ali reports, “‘non-Western’ immigrants and their descendants” account for “around two-fifths of rape convictions and between a quarter and a third of groping convictions — even though they make up less than 13 percent of the population.” In Germany, asylum seekers constituted only 1 or 2 percent of the population from 2015, but they were “disproportionately responsible for sex crimes included in the statistics, making up nearly 12 percent of suspects by 2018,” and responsible for 16.3 percent of grievous sex crimes, such as rape.

Hirsi Ali describes a pattern of government officials looking the other way and staying silent, lest they appear to be xenophobic. Take the incident in Cologne. What was the official response? Police officers on the scene reportedly ignored women who came to them with complaints or else turned them away. A police statement on New Year’s Day claimed the evening had been “largely peaceful.” It was only after a groundswell of posts on social media and coverage in news outlets, that the authorities released information about the attacks and the perpetrators. Moreover, it turned out that smaller-scale gang assaults had occurred that night in Hamburg, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, and Bielefeld.

The pattern extends beyond Germany. That same year in Sweden, at the “We Are Sthlm” summer festival, a group of some fifty young asylum seekers preyed on women at the event. Even though “thirty-eight sex offenses had been reported on girls as young as 14,” Hirsi Ali writes, Swedish police stated that the event had had “relatively few crimes.” Months later, “fearing a backlash like the one that had followed events in Cologne, Swedish police came clean. Revealingly, Södermalm police chief Peter Ågren said that one reason for the cover-up was to avoid provoking racism or ‘play into the hands of the Swedish Democrats,’ Sweden’s rightwing populist party.” Hirsi Ali believes that European leaders have come to fear that if they speak about the rise in sexual violence against women, they would be seen as “xenophobic” or as appearing to give “ground to actual xenophobes.” Instead, they would rather “cover up the problem and leave victims at risk.”

https://newideal.aynrand.org/ayaan-hirsi-ali-on-migration-islam-and-women-as-prey/

Alongside the increase in arrivals to Europe, sexual violence has proliferated on the continent, as detailed in ‘Chapter 3: Sexual Violence by Numbers’. Between 2017 and 2018, there was a 17 per cent increase in instances of rape, and a 20 per cent increase in other forms of sexual assault in France.3 In French public places, 3 million women have experienced unwanted sexual attention and advances. In Germany in 2017, the number of victims of ‘sexual coercion’ rose by 41 per cent. Compared to the previous year, Sweden witnessed a 12 per cent increase in reported sex offences in 2016—the staggering jump in these statistics is all the more shocking because rates of sexual violence were relatively stable in Sweden between 2005 and 2011.

Although Hirsi Ali recognizes that some of the increase in sexual crime statistics might be explained by new legal definitions of rape and greater public awareness about the issue (due to #metoo), she argues that it must also be acknowledged that the countries with the largest intake of immigrants have witnessed the largest increase in sexual violence. Therefore, she concludes, assessing the link between immigration and the rise of sexual violence is vitally important.

Denmark is unusual for making it relatively easy to distinguish immigrant offenders. Since 2015, the country’s share of immigrants from “non-Western countries,” excluding their Danish-born descendants, has risen from around 5% to 6%. Yet from 2015 to 2019 they have accounted for around 11% of convictions for sex offenses and 34% of convictions for rape.

In Germany a new category of “rape, sexual coercion and sexual assault in especially serious cases including resulting in death” was introduced in June 2016, making it hard to measure the effect of the migrant influx. Even so, in 2017 and 2018, more than a third of the suspects in the new category were non-Germans. For all sexual-abuse cases, the share of non-German suspects rose from 15% in 2014 to 23% in 2016, 2017 and 2018, and 21% in 2019.

“Non-German” is a broad category. In Germany’s crime statistics, the term zuwanderer, or “newcomers,” was used until 2016 to identify suspects who were asylum applicants, failed asylum seekers and illegal residents. This definition was expanded in 2017 to include successful asylum seekers. From 2017 to 2019, zuwanderer accounted for between 10% and 12% of sex-crime suspects, and around 16% of suspects for rape, sexual coercion and sexual assault in especially serious cases. It is unlikely that zuwanderer accounted for much more than 2% of the German population.

In Austria, “crimes or offenses against sexual integrity and self-determination” increased by 53% between 2015 and 2018. Between a quarter and a third of suspects were foreign, but in 2018 only 19.4% of the population was foreign-born. Between 4% and 11% of the suspects were asylum seekers; the share of the population born in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria—among the largest sources of asylum seekers—was only 1.2%.

In the absence of official statistics, the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet reviewed the gang-rape cases heard in Swedish courts between July 2012 and December 2017. Of the 112 men convicted, it found that three-quarters were foreign-born (almost all of those from outside Europe), and 30% were asylum seekers.

Talking about violence by Muslim men against European women is at odds with identity politics and its matrix of victimhood. Politicians, journalists and academics have been reluctant to acknowledge that the migrant sex-crime wave even exists. This is as much an issue of class as religion or race. Much of the crime and misconduct against women takes place in low-income neighborhoods. Somehow in the era of #MeToo, their predicament arouses less sympathy than that of Hollywood actresses.

School rolls are falling in every region.

It is surely a good job that the birth rate amoung immigrants is higher than those born here, else there would be even more of a population problem, see for example Japan, South Korea, Russia and China if you want more evidence of this.

Fortunately there are many young men and women from around the world who would like to come to the UK and therefore support are ageing population. The government recognises that, which is why it has made it easier for 100,000s of them to come here as economic migrants.
Why the government also wants to make it hard for those fleeing persecution to come here is a mystery.

That will be a no then.

On balance, I prefer St. Patrick’s Day. It’s more fun, less angry, and the participants don’t look like people who got lost on their way to start a riot at a football match..

Plenty of stats for the pp who requested them. It does sound concerning

I have to go to work now

This is the hallmark performative flounce of people who can’t debate!

Sadly, I can guarantee they'll be ignored as they were in the previous threads by other posters. The posters asking for stats don't actually want to read the stats - they were asking in the hope that I wouldn't able to provide them, thus annulling my argument. If/when the stats are provided, they are ignored. Every. Single. Time.

The problem is this black/white thinking that's so endemic of identity politics and some strands of feminism. All men are culpable for male violence ergo all Muslims are responsible for the misogynistic/patriarchal aspects of Islam. This is evident when posters try and lump 'honour killings' into the wider bracket of male violence and literally state they arise from 'the same reasons' rather than idiosyncracies such as the patriarchal belief present in most Islamic societies that women should always submit to/obey men such as their brothers, fathers, and even grown up sons (a belief that is still pervasive in many western Muslims as evidenced by surveys). In most cases these women are murdered because they 'rebel' and don't submit to their male family members which is seen as bringing shame on the family.

We should be able to recognise that VAWG is elevated in certain demographics and influenced by cultural issues present in those demographics without tarring every member with the same brush.

Instead what we get with people unable to think critically (who parrot what they read online) is a kind of contradiction whereby they condemn VAWG when committed by some demographics but minimise it and defend the patriarchy in other instances.

Oh come on wake up.

You are being conditioned by main stream media to believe all of this. No other country is made to be embarrassed about its heritage. Why has the St George’s flag been made to look like something dirty?!

If you all hate it so much there’s plenty of other counties you can go to. Perhaps one still in the EU seeing as you all love it so much.

The answer may with not wishing to be associated with the people trying to provoke a fight with the police that the OP was about.

Yes I think so to ignoring it but the issue should be talked about

Some people work nights you absolute whalloper 🤣 6pm-6am, no signal in my area of the hospital? And nothing I said was necessary of debate because it was factually correct 🙂